Fay Report Annex: DOD Interview re: Conditions at Abu Ghraib Detention Facility

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DISCLOSURE: 13. TIME
12. DATE IYVYYMMDDI

1. LOCATION 2004105
004/05 i Gao
Coroapnlis; PA 7. GRADE/STATUS

6. SSN
DOLE NAME E4
a ORGANIZATION OR ADDRESS
B Co, 321 MI Bn Dallas, TX
9.
,WANT TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT UNDER OATH: •
as read and told to me. I wish to waive my rights with the tuiderstanding that I can invoke them at a later
I understand my r.
time if I so

I was assigned to u hraib (AG) on 15 September 03, after staging through Kuwait and a short-term assignment at Baled and the
Capp cr Interrogation Facility at Baghdad International Airport (B1AP). During my train up time immediately after mobilization
and initial assignments in Kuwait and Iraq 1 did not receive any training or instruction in Interrogation Rules of Engagement

'n the Geneva Convention as it pertains to the above. However during my(1ROE), the handling of prisoner y supervisor and I had conversations about the do's and dtm's of what weassignment at the Cropper facilit term tions. At the Cropper facility it was wall known that detainees who were brought
were allowed to do and what not t a cr I did not see any
into the facility complained of beatings from members of Seal Team 5 and TF 20 personnel. While Alter I wasinstances of abuse or humiliation. These instances of beatings were photographed and documented by uuctionsassigned to AG, as part of my orientation and in processing. I was given a pamphlet to read which c
and definitions of IROE. This was later modified through a new listing of IROEs that reflected various authorities required for
OE. 1 was assigned as an analyst workin in
and un
approval. I had to sign a memo indicating that 1 had read as in charge of the interrogators,support of interrogations and later inte rated into a "Tiger Team" ficer, but he was very instrumental In getting beamcamc shortly after wards. I believe role to be Ma
living and working conditions for the .oldiers (sports equipment. computers, etc). During the first month or so I was ham
observing interrogations and taking notes. Later on, as a Tiger Team member I took a more active role in the interrogation of
detainees. When I first arrived at AG, it was common practice to use sleep deprivation and sleep management with the detainees.
I do not know how it originated or who approved it. but it Just seemed to be common practice. It was also common that the
detainees on MI hold in the hard site were initially kept naked and given clothing as an incentive to cooperatewith us. The

rnmon practice to keep
detainees in the tent area were clothed. I am not sure hov. decision by whom screening, who was
some of them naked: I felt it was a MI decision, not a MP decision and seemed to be made b
screeners to
The section 1 was in szemed to handle the "ash and trash" and we fuoctioned m
on an ego trip. brought to us by the MPs and was
' on session was in Block I

determine intelligence value. the interpreter. About a wec.
were the interrogators, an
wrapped in a shee ccond interrogation. a • naked, but clothed in a shce t
r the mo as the interpreter. Right after this the second version of the IROE.came

'd it in the shower area deprivation/sleep management had to be requested and approved. I know that

c en • res were no longer kep • • •

the MPs had stand to get more detainee jump suits and sandals flowing in through the su •ly system, where before the supply had
inees, reported to me duringbeen somewhat limited. During this time 1 became aware of incidents of possible abu 1 He i me that one,uf the
interrogation sessions by the detainees themselves. The first involved a Syrian nam
• name d

lied his 9mm pistol and put it to the detainee's head. The other detainee, t required su w the inone of the interpreters for the MPs hit him, cutting fus ear to the este t
told me ' whiJe I was wi

Ps about it a d was informed that the detainee had fallen in his cell.
argisum.
wv ti or not notorious y bad in
document it in his interrogators notes. I do not kn
told as scheduled to have a
g. Ann er ssible incidence of abuse occurred immediately after the shooting incid .
report w

night interrogation session with a detainee we referred to as "Trigger" who was given a gun in his cell by one of the Iraqi
When the MPs went to seize the gun there was a shooting incident. For a time right after, it was chaos in the area.
d I were in a meeting in the mess hall and41111111111111111 came in and indicated they needed every available
indicated there was a senseand analyst to assist and asked for "volunteers" tl fig
In CITO a id COL. Pappas had given its
of urgency to get Information about the incident and get it tonight pas bad instructed us to usblanket approval for harsher methods for that night. A couple of w tha

whatever techniques we had to in order to get the required information that night. We got to the celiblock area later
MAKING STATEMENT I

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DATED 2004/05/25
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STATEMENT OF
STATEMENT (Continued)
showed us the cell where the-20 of the Iraqi policemen had been stripped and lined up and were being ink d. Tb
barking, se in a cell, interrogating one of
outing had occurred. I heard a dog barking and when had*Kg went to interrogate one ofthe Ira• • • " . — d a dog was also in the cell. Later on
with n how toilig "fear up"
the IPs. ed this interroga ' sessi
seeing in the mess ball
techni • . •••0• • • 1.• e COL Pappis, the vicim , earlier
ve a class on the
team did limited training for us - more discussions on interrogadon proceduresThe G days of classes,role of the analyst in interrogations. A team from Huachuca came in after the GTMO teamOur process for using sleep managementincluding Rules of Engagement and the use of sleep deprivation and sleep MillaSeMCIn.
was for the interrogator to request it in writing and submit the request with the interrogation plan. The memo would stipulate sleep and wake schedules, meals, etc., and could last for no more than72 hours. Once it was approved, a memo was given to the MPs
o not know bow the MPs kept the detainees - I suppose they west by the cells and yelled or noise to keepshowing the s .. .ented that the MPs could do what was done to them in basic training (physical training, etc). Ithem awake.
that the MI's appeared to have no ROEs of their own. The MPs seemed to have no NCOs or officersbrought it up . •
•
. Shortly after the •• ..•nog incident, told me that she had an uncooperative detainee ' d nalWAvnaked from the cones area to the Camp Vigilan . It was cold that night, maybe about 30 degrees kd anald the
other individual on the carpet over this incident and wanted both given an Article 15. Jor hand uer
on duty at nigh
himself. I do not know what punishment was given, hut know that both were removed from interrogation duties. I knew about a previous incident involving two interrogators from the 519th that had been drinking and went to get a female detainee from the 1B area and made her remove her shirt. The MPs saw this and reported the matter. two were relieved from interrogator duties.
We had a change interrogator r this - when a female detainee was interrogated, there had to be another female present. It was common knowledge tha used sleep deprivation and dogs while he l td' special projects, working directly fors
COL Pappas after the capture o a • m on 14 Dec. It would not surprise me ' told the MPs bow to treat detainees. 1 know that he had told the MPs that some of the detainees be was interrogating w ' - they had used LEDs and killed Soldiers. I do not know what he expected when he told the MPs that, but he might have been suggesting that they yell at them, or such things. However, he might have Imo
hat the MPs would or would not do. 1 saw him use a dog on one other occasion (other than the night of the shooung). d 1 were interrogating a female detainee and beard a dog barking. The female was really afraid of dogs and we had GG to her went to see what was going on and saw a detainee in his underwear
on a mattress on the floor with a dog over him. was upstairs giving directions to the "take him
back home". The detainee was one o •id an interpreter in the area. The MP wa (Photo 196 that 1 viewed is a picture of this incul would come into our 0 times, ev 11 ui about detaumes - who was sick, etc. dogs beta re. d other MPs used to refer to the "doggy dance" sessions 1 were close me . ' him and Mon
s well liked by
several occasions and I never out of e I with the interrogators and interpreters and seemed quiet and sh • interesting tactics a lot, but busive.. He used lit" up technique a lot and thought all detainees were
'
am
c to me one morning and said he had to tell me some . The night befo d ' the office •nd took to
ea to show him something. When he got there he saw two prisoners floor. vas there and they
were all yelling at the detain king them crawl around on the flour. dtsguste
after a few minutes. 1 tol t I would take care of it. I could not t to tell
saw me and I think 1 going to tell ng but not what
with me. I spoke t in private, as I did not hear what I was lain • l bout the incident

in the Noir • w any MI personnel in of anything like that, ell the vc immediately. id he would tell his NCOIC about it. He lett and came back later and told me it had been taken care of. I did not tell MI
t. as MI was not in f the detainees, the MPs were. 1 felt that by telling the MPs about it. it would be fixed. I probably should have told about, but felt that by telling bout it would be taken care o st le hindsight maybe 1 should d someone in Ml about it. Withina couple of days I mentioned it t di This was more in c in a friend than reporting an incident. The three of to were close and corrrmcu in each ntli Iter heard that 1 had tol about the incident and asked if I had specifically told about him. I think that I mentioned tha just three Ml folks, but name names. After the capture•of Saddam, our team was given special extended authority from COLPappas to use harsher techniques. We would still have to request authority by memo, but COL Pappas would approve it. My team never did re uest any of the harsher methods. Other than what I described above I did not sec or hear about abuse or humiliation of detainees. I did not sec or hear a photos or videos. The NCOs, particularly the section chiefs, did not condone abuse - this was especially true I did hear about one occasion in which an Iranian detainee was bitten by a dog, hut do not C CITCUM3 dived. Concerning Photo 23, File Mark 4: The individual leaning against the wall next t s possibl who was part of the / but worked for COL Pappas at the 205th Headquarters.
Q: Is •thing you s statement? A: N
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(Signature of Persor(_,•king Statement)
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administer oaths, this 25 .day of May 2004 ,
at (LIZ f c i)c.t
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