Taguba Report Annex 75: Testimony of Chief Warrant Officer 2 Edward J. Rivas, 205th Military Intelligence Brigade

On 22 February 2004, a team of officers, directed by Major General Antonio Taguba,
conducted the following interview. Major General Taguba was appointed as an
Investigating Officer under the provisions of Army Regulation 15-6, by Lieutenant
General David D. McKieman, Commanding General of the Coalition Forces Land
Component Command (CFLCC), to look into allegations of maltreatment of detainees,
detainee escapes and accountability lapses, at Abu Gharib, also known as the Baghdad
Central Confinement Facility (BCCF). The panel also inquired into training, standards,
employment, command policies, and internal policies, concerning the detainees held at
Abu Gharib prison. Finally, the panel looked into the command climate and the
command and supervisory presence
The following persons were present:
CO MP, CFLCC — PMO, Interviewer
LTC111 611,CC — SJA, Interviewer
LTC 705th MP Battalion, Interviewer
CW2411111111111111110MNPMMIPIT, CJTF-7, C2, MIR, Respondent
The interview is summarized as follows:
My name is1111111111111111.1I am a CW2, Interrogation Technician. Currently, I'm assigned to the CJTF-7 C2, in the EMIR, Iraqi Military Intelligence Requirement project. I work specifically forte,as of 16 Feb 2004. Before, I worked for the 205 th MI Brigade at Abu Gharib. My immediate supervisor was MAJOIIIIIIIIIIMa from October 2003 to January 2004. My Senior Rater would have been COL Pappas. I arrived at Abu Gharib around the middle September 2003 as the Operations Collection Focus Element Team.
Interrogations took place in Tiers lA and 1B. Upon arrival we had three interrogation tents for a lot of people. So, at the end of the tier was a room that was actually a non­used stairway that was used for interrogations. There were also non-used showers that were used, as well. Tier lA is on the left hand side and Tier 1B is on the right hand side as you walk down the corridor towards the back exit. I believe it was on Tier 1A. The door at the stairwell was locked. No one ever used it. There were showers on both tiers.
MP role was to stay near the entrance way in order to escort detainees back to their cells or, if the detainee requires medical attention, to summon aid. The MP unit assigned to Tier IA was responsible for that section. Operations were controlled by the MPs. While interrogations were taking place, MPs were allowed into the interrogation room, if the MPs felt that they needed to be present.
We all followed, I think it's called, the Interrogation Area SOP. MAJ 1111N generated it. I don't have a copy, but there are copies at the JIF.
We may have done twenty to twenty-five interrogations in this area, but I'm not sure. The actual interrogators assigned to our Interrogation Control, and one of the MPs who
A wNEX —75
DOCID0A-002811
happens to be on schedule were usually involved in the interviews. I can't remember
who was involved in the last interview. We stopped doing interrogations there in
November, because, we got the ability to do interrogations at the wooden site. The MPs
are not involved, because there are not enough MPs to go around.
I wasn't there, but I understand LTC- observed some interrogations. I know SENN& its an Interrogator. We do have a log. The ICE maintains it. I don't
have access to it. All detainees belong to the MPs. They're in their custody. Sometimes,
an MI soldier might use his position, as a collector, to try and influence the environment
of the detainees. We borrow the detainees for our collection. That's what I've always
preached to the guys.
I've heard of the Rules of Interrogation. They deal with certain approaches. There are
certain approaches that have to be approved by higher, before you can use them.
Approaches include change of scenery, pride and ego, sleep management, dietary
management. LTG Sanchez would approve these. I typically don't see them when they
come back. They don't come to me. The SOG should have a copy signed off by LTG
Sanchez, or they do nothing. I don't think any were approved for use of dog.
I have not seen any prisoners being abused. I've seen some potential incidences,
especially with transporting units, but I've talked to them about it. When people are
taking somebody off the deuce and a half, and they're cuffed, they can only move so
quickly. So, you remind people, "Hey, if that guy falls, and breaks a hip, it's on you."
We're also charged with their care.
I'm aware of the Geneva Convention, and I've received training on it. To post things like that up, is not as accurate as posting the Rules of Engagement, saying you can't do this, this, this, and this, unless it's approved.
I had no supervisory role over the interrogators, but I'm in the neighborhood. I'm in the
area. The most important operation, to me, is the screening, the assessment people.
These are the people that the truckloads get dropped off to. They assess them of
Intelligence potential. Their call puts people in our collection system, or turns them
away.
We would show up to the gate, and wait. We would say, "I would like detainee, 156035, in cell 32, please." They bring him over. They search him. Another MP escorts him to the booth. The MP stays outside the booth. When we're done, as a courtesy, we walk them back, so that the MP would have some language support.
My guys have had exposure to detainees. As the host collectors, and because they have introductory training in Geneva Hague Convention, the Law of Warfare, and the treatment of prisoners we have to ensure nothing funny is happening in the booth. When OGAs come in, they follow our rules, or they don't play. It's all in working with people. Luckily, we established a very good relationship with every single OGA at Camp
DODD0A-002812

Cropper. In addition to being in there for the safety of the detainee, and the OGA, we're
in there to gather leads.
In my understanding, "softening up" is done to a detainee prior to being interrogated, so that when he is interrogated, he'll be more likely to cooperate. From the photos I saw, what they were doing was no way near a technique that would have ever been proposed. The guys who have the most information are the most savvy anyway. If we had to crunch soup to nuts, who we were effectively able to exploit, we got into them by speaking to them nicer, and building rapport. You didn't have to be the guy's best friend, but you at least found what was important to him, and you got the narrative going. When a VIP comes into an interrogation facility, and he walks down the admin hallway, the interrogation he will stop and look at, and spend the most time with, is the one where the guy is standing in his chair yelling, " You're lying to me, and I know you ace!" Those are the ones that are not effective.
We were under pressure to produce. There are people dying out there. There was
pressure from outside sources, and from myself.
As far as taking away clothes for collection purposes, I would say that's not a good intelligence tactic. There are people who may think that would work.
The MPs implemented the approaches, particularly, with sleep management. They had a time frame of when to bed the guy down... I observed music being placed outside the cell to keep them awake.
I overheard there was an investigation of an unauthorized interrogation, when three male collectors interrogated a female detainee. I've never been the subject of a Procedure 15 Investigation, and I don't know of any being conducted.
Finished with their discussion, COLIIIIIIII1gave CW2.questions, to be addressed, and brought back on a Sworn Statement.
DODD0A-002813