Taguba Report Annex 72: Testimony of First Lieutenant Elvis Mabry, Aide de Camp to Brigadier General Karpinski, 800th Military Police Brigade

On 15 February 2004, a team of officers, directed by Major General Antonio Taguba,
conducted the following interview. Major General Taguba was appointed as an
Investigating Officer under the provisions of Army Regulation 15 6, by Lieutenant
-
General David D. McKiernan, Commanding General of the Coalition Forces Land
Component Command (CFLCC), to look into allegations of maltreatment of detainees,
detainee escapes and accountability lapses, at Abu Ghraib, also known as the Baghdad
Central Confinement Facility (BCCF). The panel also inquired into training, standards,
employment, command policies, and internal policies, concerning the detainees held at
Abu Ghraib prison. Finally, the panel looked into the command climate and the
command and supervisory presence
The following persons were present:
MP CFLCC — PMO, Interviewer
705th MP Battalion, Interviewer
Engineer Group — SJA, Interviewer
, 800th MP Brigade, Interviewee
The interview is summarized as follows:
M name is_My social security number is am t e Ai e- e- amp for Brigadier General Karpinski.
I am responsible for overall safety. I act as a PSO. I am also a schedule mana er. M
branch is MP. I came to the 800 MP Brigade as BG Hill's Aid-de-Camp
I went through MOB training at Fort Dix. We training consisted of conduct, ROE, and family separation. We did weapons qualification and Hist training. We an ihtemal CPX. We trained on Geneva Conventions.
BG Karpinski traveled quite often. There would be times we would go daily to the Baghdad Correctional Facility and at least twice a month to Camp Bucca or the prisons in the Mosul Area. When we went to Abu Graib she would touch base Battalion Commander. There were some char es in the position of Battalion Conunandeothe current Battalion Commander is _. It is my understanding that when the MI took over the facility the 800 th MP nga e was removed from oversight. I believe there was a discussion between BG Karpinski and 111111111about who was in control of what.
There was nothing out of the ordinary when I visited Abu Graib. There were minor uniform discrepancies, but nothing major. I am not aware of the 163' d MI in to set standards as far as saluting. I recall a discussion between BG Karpinski an about living conditions as far as expanding the troop living area. I don't recall B Karpinski's comments in regards to the expansion. I never sit in on conversations nor telephone calls that the General has.
A w
I'd say BG Karpinski and myself have a pretty good relationship. She is a very smart
lady, she knows her job, and I respect her a lot. She is hands-on when she needs to be,
but she normally steps back and lets her leaders be leaders. If she sees something going
off track she will step in.
I am familiar_ spension from his command. If I recall correctly the break in command was due to a couple of incidents, starting with the briefings given to LTG Sanchez. The briefing wasn't put out very well at all. _ as unprepared. He did a pre-brief for BG Karpinski where she pointe ou ings she wanted fixed, they were never fixed. In addition there were taskings BG Karpinski wanted to be done that were never completed. I do not know if the suspension is documented. I think he was the time away from the command to regroup and get focused again, I believe when BG Ka inski felt as ready he was put back in his position.
took his roeduring e suspension.
My opinion of_is that he is not a very confident leader. I feel that he
doesn't have that leader s presence. I don't know the morale of the unit. I'm not certain
about the command climate; I do know his staff is loyal to him. I believe the SGM has
held censing session, but I don't know the outcome.
We have 3 or 4 different prisons in Baghdad that we would visit regularly, to check up on troops, to see if they needed anything, and to let the soldier know they were not forgotton. The number one priority on the general's list was the BCCF. Once the 205 th
MP Battalion took control of the BCCF the next priori would have been Camp Bucca. I would say there was a decrease in visits after the 205 took over.
Her command philosophy was to focus on the mission, keep safe at all times, and the treatment of detainees with dignity and respect. She didn't have anything written, but after she took command she made her stops at every unit at every site.
There has not been an abnormal amount of disciplinary actions in this unit. I have heard of all of the disciplinary actions of the unit. I wouldn't say that is the norm, it's not proper conduct for anyone in uniform. BG Karpinski has been very strict towards the infractions that have happened in the unit. I would say that leaders that have been involved in some of the disciplinary incidents have either been suspended or relieved.
When BG Karpinsi visited the units after the change of command she would meet with the Battalion Commander, and the Company Commanders. The CSM would talk to all of the senior enlisted
I was in an AGR status starting October 2002 with the 306 th MP battalion. I then was the
or BG Hill in January 2003. Previously I was a platoon leader in the 3 ompany and 423'I MP Company, and I did 8yrs enlisted active duty as an 11B.
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I still have the schedules that I had made for BG Karpinski.
When 1 accompanied the General on her command visits her main focus was the force protection, the force protection posture, the perimeter, needs of the Command, and soldier's MWR issues. I believe she was aware of the problems with the S-1, but the unit has been overwhelmed with awards and NCOER's. She has also been aware of the numerous problems with the S-4 and the problem getting supplies.
I believe reports of survey have been done for the light sets at Abu Graib. It took a long
time to get engineer support for Abu Graib, things didn't get situated to the M.I. got on
ground. My own opinion is that active duty got support where the reserves did not. My
opinion is that the FOB commander was supported more by LTG Sanchez than BG
Ka inski. I'm not sure if LTG Sanchez lost faith in the MP's after the briefing from
if so I fee! that was a very harsh assumption.
I feel the BG Karpinski and LTG Sanchez had a good working relationship. I think she
spoke to LTG Sanchez every 3 days or so. There were lots of request put in, and they
came back denied for different reasons. My observation was that priority went to 41D,
101 51, or whoever else.
We would always walk through the compounds. BG Karpinski would ask the compound
staff about population, how much space, how much food, and general detainee health and
welfare issues. She would ask about the command climate and if there was a problem
what she could do to resolve it.
She would ask about detainee treatment, but nothing specific to the Geneva Convention. Everyone had already received briefings and training in regards to the Geneva Convention. She would ask about the problems encountered with detainees and how they were solved. I never saw the Geneva Convention posted, I knew there were SOP's posted. There was hand written special orders manning the guard post, the general would inquire and make sure the orders were up to date.
When the general was informed of detainee deaths and abuses around the compounds she was upset. She would inquire to what exactly happened. She would then inquire about the status of the detainees and soldiers that were involved in the various incidents.
My opinion is that the unit should receive more frequent classes on detainee treatment and reinforcement of training in ROE.
The battalions shared lessons learned through the S-3's of the Brigade, the S-3's of the different units would inform each other of trends they have seen and solutions they have used. The general would hold a commander's call about once a month. I can't recall the issues that were addressed.
After an incidents had happened at the compounds, we would evaluate the who, what, when, why, and how to see what had to be changed. The Camp Bucca incident happened
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right at the end of General Hill's command. I believe the incident had been discussed in BG Karpinski's commander's call.
To my knowledge the rumor of sexual misconduct between a Battalion Commander and a Captain never made it to the level of allegations or an investigation, I am not sure if BG Karpinski was aware. The rumor was the 724 th Battalion Commander had a sexual encounter with her female assistants I believe that incident also took place during General Hill's tenure.
Detainee Abuses or misconduct is reported to JAG or IG. I am not aware of any lack of responsiveness to commanders. People who make reports or not looked at negatively. It was MP's that brought he incident in Camp Bucca to light.
To my knowledge BG Karpinkski did not withhold jurisdiction from the CFLCC Commander on any of her officer disciplinary issues. It criminal activity was committed there were no second chances given because it was not a mistake. I would say responses to disciplinary infractions in the command are about right on target not to lenient, not too harsh.
Finished with their discussion, the panel gave _list of items, to be addressed, and brought back on a Sworn Statement. The pane en ismissed ILT
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SWORN STATEMENT
For use of this form, see AR 19045: the proponent agency is ODCSOPS

PRIVACY ACT STATEMENT AUTHORITY?_Title 10 USC Section 301; Title 5 USC Section 2951; E.O. 9397 dated November 22, 1943 (SS/VI. PRINCIPAL PURPOSE:_To provide commanders and law enforcement officials with means by which information may be accurately ROUTINE USES:_ Your social security number is used as an additional/alternate means of identification to facilitate filing and retrieval . DISCLOSURE: Disclosure of your social secunty number is voluntary.
_
1. LOCATION 2. DATE (YYYYMMDD) 3. TIME 4_FILE NUMBER
Camp Aril:jai. Kuwait 15 FEB 2004 1800 hrs(L)
5 LAST NAME FIRST NAME. MIDDLE NAME 6. SSN 7. GRADE/STATUS
MI
8. ORGANIZATION OR ADDRESS
800th MP BDE
9
I. WANT TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT UNDER OATH:

While serving as the Aide-De-Camp for BG Karpinski from July 2003 until the present, I was present for almost all of her visits to
detention locations throughout Iraq. When BG Karpinski would arrive at a facility she would be given an update by the unit that
was there on the current status of the facility operation. She would discuss any concerns the unit commander had and offer
soultions or advise them that she would take whatever action she could to rectify the problem upon returning to the 800th MP BDE
TOC. She would ask the commander several questions concerning the detainees and their welfare. Also questions about the troops
welfare and force protection. BG Karpinski would then walk around the facility and talk to the soldiers on duty to get their take on
the situation at that facility. BG Karpinski would ask them how they were, what kind of shift they were on, how long bad they
been on shift, what were they responsible for, how were the detainees behaving, when had the soldier called home last, what were
the emergency procedures. did they have lethal or non-lethal in their weapon, did they check the weapons when they came on shift
to ensure what kind of rounds were in the weapon. BG Karpinski would look at the facility and point out any potential hazards for
the soldiers. detainees or possible weaknesses that would enable a detainee to escape. BG Karpinski would also note any force
protection issues and discuss ways to improve force protection. If there were Iraqi prison gurads working at the facility she would
inquire about them to the facility commander and speak to several of them as she went through the facility. The visit would end
with a recap of what the facility issues were and possible solutions, and then we would return to the brigade TOC or on to the next
location. As requested 1 have attached the copies of my calender that I used to maintain BG Karpinski's schedule. The fust two
weeks of January 2004 are missing due to me not keeping track of them on a calander format, the remaining two weeks of January
and February are present until the day we left Baghdad. The days on which BG Karpinski gave her "Command Philosophy" was
during the initial visit with BG Hill during the last two weeks of June 2003. I would also note that throughout the operation as the
mission developed. BG Karpinski would visit the facilities to ensure that the commanders at the facilities were clear on any changes
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