Taguba Report Annex 62: Testimony of Captain Marc C. Hale, Commander, 670th Military Police Company

On 10 February 2004, a team of officers, directed by Major General Antonio Taguba,
conducted the following interview. Major General Taguba was appointed as an
Investigating Officer under the provisions of Army Regulation 15-6, by Lieutenant
General David D. McKiernan, Commanding General of the Coalition Forces Land
Component Command (CFLCC), to look into allegations of maltreatment of detainees,
detainee escapes and accountability lapses, at Abu Gharib, also known as the Baghdad
Central Confinement Facility (BCCF). The panel also inquired into training, standards,
employment, command policies, and internal policies, concerning the detainees held at
Abu Gharib prison. Finally, the panel looked into the command climate and the
command and supervisory presence
The following persons were present:
COL MP, CFCC — PMO, Interviewer
LT JA, CFLCC — SJA, Interviewer

LTC 705th MP Battalion, Interviewer
CP Company, Respondent
SS e , 27D30, CFLCC — SJA, Recorder

The interview is summarized as follows:
I'm CPT , 670th Military Police Company, National Guard from California, and I'm currently at Baghdad Correctional Facility. The 670th at Baghdad Correctional facility is responsible for the QRF, quick response force. We're also tasked with providing 2 platforms of escort teams of 2 teams each. Additionally, we're responsible for providing 4 soldiers per day for internal contractor escorts. We also have 2 to 3 soldiers on standby for basically whatever the battalion needs us to escort. On a daily basis, I have 2 people off for the company. The guidance we were given, originally, was the internal escorts needed to be MP's, but later that changed to, if you're soldiers, you could use allybody you want to do that. I've never had my soldiers assist other companies, except at Camp Bucca, but they stayed under my command.
Right now, my chain of command includes LT the 320th Battalion Commander, and next up from him is COL 6th MP Brigade Commander. I don't know who is next up from him.
Prior to February 1st General Karpinski was the 800th MP Brigade Commander. I saw her every couple of months — not very often, but she was around. The 670th has been at Abu Gharib since November 14th, and I think I saw her one time between November
14th and now. The day she came in was to talk to the company commanders about serious allegations of misconduct going on. She talked about making sure soldiers understood their ROE's. She passed out paperwork to the 320th Battalion, which contained information on who to contact, if anyone witnessed any misconduct. She was vague about what happened. I still don't know what happened. She wanted to make sure soldiers knew, if something were wrong, they could contact their chain of command, and this individual, CP of CJTF-7.
A WNe 6, as.
Well, Sir, we've been here for 10 months. If you're talking about soldier life support, it's been horrible. We got here April 12th, and crossed the border April 16th to Camp Bucca, and it was pretty bad. There was no ice. It took 6 months to get air-conditioned buildings. We had no Porta-Potty latrines for a month and a half. As far as soldier life support, I'd give them an F. As far as supplies, or any classes of supply, or S4 issues. I pretty much initiated that myself. I never got anywhere with the Battalion, because, I think, they weren't getting anywhere with the Brigade. So, I went off on my own, and told my guys to we needed to make it happen. We'd go to Camp Doha, or Camp Arifjan. It's the same, here. I've tried to do things on my own, based on what I've seen and heard from the Brigade.
I have confidence in my battalion, but not the brigade. As a matter of fact, we submitted 50 plus awards, back in June, to go through the chain of command for General Hill to sign, before he left, and those got lost. We re-did them, and they never made it to brigade. Or they made it to brigade, and they didn't go anywhere, at least that's what my battalion was telling me. We re-submitted them again, about a month and a half ago, and this time, we took them straight to brigade, and handed them to the brigade SI NCO. I just found out, yesterday, that they were signed. My OER is still missing. I made sure it got submitted numerous times, and it's still not signed. I still have some NCOERs that are still not signed. I don't have any confidence in the 800th at all.
The SI and S4 are broke. It's rumored that we were supposed to et trailers at Camp
Bucca, soon after we arrived. General Hill put out to the S4, that he was to
push this contract, and MAJIIII didn't do it, because he felt the contract wouldn't be
signed, because it was so expensive. Then there was some meeting, and General Hill
asked about the disposition of these trailers (this was told to me by my battalion staff),
and MAIIIIllasically said, "I didn't do it." Then, about a month later, we started
getting trailers. It took them an entire summer to put all that stuff together. We didn't
move in until a week before we came up to BCF.
They 800th asked a couple of times to for us to write AARs. I've never heard anything
back. I didn't expect to. There's never been a time, when someone from the brigade
came down, to say what are we doing wrong, what can we do to improve. Except one time, when there was an escape at Camp Bucca, they sent someone up a Lieutenant
Colonel, I think he's a Chief of Staff. He brought all the company commanders in, and I didn't have anything to do with working in the compounds at Camp Bucca. We've always been TCP's or OP's. He came to talk about ways we could improve operations at Camp Bucca, and I thought it was so ridiculous, because this guy obviously didn't Mow what he was talking about. It was a waste of our time.
I think that, if my brigade is across the border, then, I should be up there, as well. I don't know everything about what the brigade was doing, but if their sole purpose in life, back in April, was to run things at Camp Bucca, they should have had their brigade main at Camp Bucca. Not, one 06 up there, who didn't know what he was doing. CO I'm not going to get in trouble for this, am I? He was very far from reality. If he was t e one, who was supposed to be in charge of Camp Bucca, then, there should have been a lot more definitive guidance put out from him, which should have trickled down to my level. I never saw a force protection plan, until I re-wrote it, as the Force Protection Officer for a couple of months. He never came down to the TCP. He never talked to any of my soldiers about what their roles and responsibilities were. Stuff just wasn't together. They didn't have ice. They didn't have trailers. See the bottles of water, being heated in front of the heater? Well, it was so hot you could sit a bottle on a sandbag, and your water would be hot enough for soup. That's how hot it was down there. They didn't have ice. They didn't have trailers. The only guidance my guys got was the guidance I gave them, but nothing ever trickled down. When you tried to go up, you basically got blown off.
I tried to relieve my First Sergeant back in May. It really upset me, because he had an inappropriate relationship with one of my soldiers. I'm in the process of doing it, now, with the 16th. I went down to Arifjan, because my battalion commander told me. that before I take action, I had to go down to Arifjan, and talk to LTC11111. The relationship started before the deployment, continued on at Fort Lewis, I tried to have him relieved there. Couldn't do it. We got to Camp Bucca, it happened again. I went down to talk to LTC,and he basically blew me off. So, I went to the 377th TSC JAG people, and th ad 2 options — I could go back to the 800th, and deal with it, because it has to go through the first general officer in the chain of command, which would, at that time, would have been General Hill. Or, you could go back to Camp Bucca, write him a counseling statement, have someone there senior to him, to act as a witness, and you could give him another direct order, like I did back at Fort Lewis, and basically ve him another chance. Because of the way I felt about the brigade, and the way LTC blew me off, I did just that.
After February 1st, I went to my battalion commander and said, now that the 16th MP Brigade I know something is going to get done. This is what's going on. I want to take care of this. So, it's getting done.
Sir, the 16th has only been in charge 11 days, but you can already see a difference. You can already see a difference. Their Si has already come to our battalion and asked, "What can we do to help?" They've taken awards, and they've been actively involved in the battalion SI. The Brigade Sergeant Major came over to my company area. My soldiers were shocked to see a Brigade Sergeant Major come over, and give them an hour of his time. I went into their 16th Brigade TOC, and everything it's dress right dress. People have their rules and responsibilities, and it's obvious, that you've got a structured team in there. As opposed to the 800th, where everyone was working in one small building with books, and Gatorade packets, and snacks, and shelves all over the place. It's like night and day. It's incredible.
Sir, I never received any guidance. Whether there was a Force Protection Plan for Camp Bucca, or not, I never saw it, and my guys were the ones working the TCP's, we were controlling the external area for Camp Bucca, and we were doing the LP/OP's, that surrounded the LSA. The only guidance that my soldiers got was the guidance that came from my mouth, thinking this has got to be right. I talked to my S3, and he said that sounds fine. You're doing fine. The only scheduled patrol times came from me. There was no insight from the brigade. I don't think the Battalion gave me that, because they
didn't get it from brigade. Everything that I did, at Camp Bucca, came from what I
thought was right. Thankfully, nobody got hurt.
We are a Combat Support MP Company, back at home. We were mobilized as an EPW Guard Company. There was a cap on the number of people we were authorized to bring over here. We were only authorized to deploy as P2, so that the other units in the battalion could also deploy. My normal strength, back home is 184. I was only authorized to bring 104. We were the 2nd company in the battalion to get our mobilization orders. The first company 649th MP Company, they're in Baqubah, right now. They got their mobilization order, and ended up taking 25 of my soldiers. About a week and a half, after they got their mobilization order, we got ours. Because we had given 25 of our soldiers, now we couldn't fill all our positions. We took 10 of them back. Then, we took a platoon from northern California down with our company, and deployed with 103. There was crazy shifting all over the state.
We're normally under the 100th Troop Command. They pass out a lot of guidance. They're always communicating with us. I saw our Brigade Commander, back home, all the time. He was a great speaker, and great with soldiers. I think I didn't see much of General Karpinski, because we didn't have anything to do with detention operations. She never talked to any of my guys.
My soldiers were never trained on Geneva Convention. I received training on the ROE, and turned around and provided training to my soldiers. The only time I heard anything about treatment of prisoners was when this whole big thing happened last month. We got a memo from General Sanchez and General Karpinski, and a power point slide. We were told to post this guidance.
I am just waiting for COLVIN, to let him know about the 1SG. We're meeting today at 1300. I've already established where he's going to work. I have all the paperwork. The 1 SG will be at Camp Victory, and she will remain in the company.
The incidents have been very hush hush, quiet. I don't even want to know. These guys were replaced my escorts, and I had to give up 4 guys to go into the prison for about a week and a half. They still reported to there chain of command. 1 stayed away from them. I know there were 1 female; and I male. The female had a tattoo on her wrist. They're gone. I have my guys back, now.
The panel stopped, to discuss CPI statements.
Finished with their discussion, the panel gave CPT., list of items, to be addressed, and brought back on a Sworn Statement.
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SWORN STATEMENT
For use of Its larn. see AR 190-45: Ile peopram agency it OOCSOPS

PRIVACY ACT STATEMENT
AUTHORITY. litre 10 USC Section 301; Tirk 5 USC Section 2951: ED. 9397 dated November 22. 1943 SM.
PRINCIPAL PURPOSE: 1 o provide commanders end law Warrenton officials with mons by which 'Monsoon see be azarstar 'Sainted.
ROUTINE USES. Soul social security number is used as an sdatenalshernate mews of identilicanon to lecitsie fins and Nueva.
DISCLOSURE. Disclosure of vow social swum number Is voluntary
I . LOCATION 2 DATE trrrrasawa 3. TIME 4. FILE NUMBER
Baghdad Correctional Facility 10 February 2004_2130

5 LAST NAME MIDDLE NAME B. SSN 7 GRADEISTATUS
0-3/ CPT
8.
ORGANIZATION OR ADDRESS
67(1th MIlitar\ Police• .:loinpany,, Baghdad Correctional Facility APO AE 09335

9.

I CP_ . WANT TO MAKE THE FOLLOYANG STATEMENT UNDER OATH:
I have been asked b 1 COL _to prepare written answers to questions posed to me on 10 February 2004. The tollowing
are the questions and answers:
I . Have von seen or received any SOPs or special orders from the 800th MP BDE or the 320th MP BN.
-The oniv orders or special instructions my company has received from the 800th MP BDE are the Rules of Engagement. We
received the initial ROE upon arrival in theater and then an update sometime after 24 November 2004. The only SOPs we have
received from the 320th was the base defense plan for Baghdad Correctional Facility. While at Camp Bucca and under the
control or the 530th MP BN, we did receive a BN TACSOP from them.

2. Give a brief discussion of your command philosophy.
-_I have attached a copy of my command philosophy. Additionally, I have every new soldier to the unit read it, and then sign a
copy 01 11 saving that they understand it and will follow it._(See Attached)

3. How did the relationship evolve between the 670th MP CO and the 800th MP BDE.
-_While al our mobilization stations, Ft. Lewis, WA. 1 was in constant contact with CPT_of the 4th ID PMO. Initially, we were suppossed to be under the 530th MP BN then it changed to the 310th . 't until we arrived in theater that we found out we had been switched back to the 530th and were no longer under the 4th ID. Additionally, I had no idea that the 670th was assigned to the 800th MP BDE until we hit the gound at Arifjan. There was no point of contact/ liason
fol us at Camp Wolt upon our arrival. 1 took the company. on a chance, over to the SPOD in hopes to find our vehicles. Once again, there was no POC there and we spent the entire day searching for our vehicles and trailers. Still unsure of where the 670th was actually suppossed to go for temporary housing prior to movement north, I took another chance and moved the company to Camp A rifjan (because it was the closest base to the SPOD). After meeting with the housing people there, we were
told that we were indeed in the correct spot. At this point, I went to find out any information about our unit. I went into the
800th MP BDE and found out that we actually belonged to them rather than the 4th ID. This was extremely disturbing because in Tact they knew we were coming into theater but made no efforts to assist us once we were on the ground. 1 was tole: by the 5-3 not to unpack. There was no schedule in place for incoming units. There was no pre-execution checklist for incoming units. 1 did what 1 thought needed to be done and hope that it was the correct thing.\_ 1
4. Compare and contrast the 800th MP BDE and the 16th MP BDE with regards to training, SOPs, discipline, leader involvement..
-_Refer to above with regards to the 800th. _As for leader involvement, the only time my soldiers ever got to talk with the BDE
commander was back in May 2003 when BG Paul Hill was in charge. He actually came to our LSA at Camp Bucca and sat down to speak with the troops for about 1 hour. We never saw the BDE CSM either. I cannot comment too much on the 16th as theyhave just recently took over form the 800th. 1 can say that I have
seen the 16th BDE commander at least twice now at BCF in the two weeks they have been in charge. The 16th BDE CSM came into our LSA and spoke first with me about my mission statement and asked me, from the commanders standpoint, what the concerns of my soldiers were. He then had a sensing session with all of the NCO's in my company which lasted approximately 2 hours._This was extremely valuable._As for disci line. attached memorandum for record regarding my ISG. I felt that 1 was co_01d
1 / . town off from the BDE SJA, LTC_1 had a serious issue regarding misconduct from my company ISG and LT_id not seem like he was interested in helping.Because of the situation, I
waited until the 800th left and then brought the_e ack up again with the new chain of commandunder the 16th MP BDE. Just this afternoon, following my appointment
with the 15-6 investigation, I had an appointment with the 16th MP BDE commander and the outcome was successful. I feel I got the attention I needed eight months ago and since the appointment have taken the necessary steps to remove my 1SG and start to improve the morale in my company. As far
as 10 EXHIBIT
11. SON MAKIN; STATEMENT
I -2—.
PAGE 1 OF PAGES
I
t
ADDITIDNAI PAGES MYST CONTAIN THE HEADING 'STATEMENT DI TAKEN AT DATED
rHE BOrTalf Of EACH ADDITIONAL PAGE MUST REAR TN( INITIALS Of THE PERSON AMMO THE STATEMENT. AND PAGE MINN MUST Of RE INDICATED.

2823, OEC 1998 OA FORM 2823-111L 72, IS OaSEILET: NAPA 11.10
¦Sen-e7"
STATEMENT Of TAKEN AT DATED /1
9. STATEMENT 'Cunt:nue&
It wasn't until I was appointed as the Force Protection Officer for Camp Bucca in Late September that any changes or updates were made. I have not yet received any SOPs from the 16th MP BDE.
.5. The last issue I was asked to address was with regards to the M1114's that were left behind by the 223rd MP CO (Kentuciky National Guard) and I was forced to sign for. (See attached memo, and email traffic).
-My response to this is that if these vehicles belonged to the National Guard and NGB did not want anyone but a National Gard Unit to sign for them, then why was I forced toreceive them on my property book and then subhandreceipt them out to reserve units. Why was it left up to the company supply sergeant from the 223rd and me to figure out all of the paperwork without any specific guidance from the BDE other than subhandreceipt 11 here and 14 here.
...Vrirree-tel
AFFIDAVIT
I. . , HAVE READ OR HAVE HAD READ TO ME THIS STATEMENT WHICH BEGINS ON PAGE 1. AND ENDS ON PAGE Z I FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CONTENTS OF THE ENTIRE STATEMENT MADE BY ME. THE STATEMENT IS TRUE. 1 HAVE INITIALED ALL CORRECTIONS AND HAVE INITIALED THE BOTTOM OF EACH PAGE CONTAINING THE STATEMENT. I HAVE MADE THIS
STATEMENT FREELY WITHOUT HOPE OF BENEFIT OR REWARD, WITHOUT THREAT OF PUNISHMENT, AND WITHOUT COERCION. UNLAWFUL INFLUENCE. OR UNLAWFUL INDUCEMENT
(Stmatere of Paan Maim Statement) WITNESSES Subscribed and swam to bolote me. a person bottomed by law to
administer oaths. Pis i 1 dry of Lir= . i CaC,Ir
It 1 S ia"?
10T" NM, C c 326r" Mil Pitsl
?NA? APO AL 0933S
ORGANIZATION OR ADDRESS (Scutari of Person Adatiaistenag Oath)

NAI

ORGANIZATION OR ADDRESS (Auttnarty To Aziminister Oaths) iN1T ALS OF PERSON MAKING STATEMENT
ca PAGE Z OF 2_ PAGES
PAU 3, DA FORM 2873, DEC 1398
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800MPS3FWD
gym : 800 MP BDE OPS [ef800mpbdeops@aritjan.ar tarmy.smil.mil) it: ber 21, 2003 7:09 AM PT CJTF7-800MP BDE OPS; CPT CJTF7-800MP BDE OPS; CJTF7-320 MP BN S3; 7. , . -vv. PS3FWD; 744 MP SN Cc: MAJ CJTF7-800TH MP BDE-$3; Clarke, Donald R SFC 800 MP BDE 5-3: TF7-800TH MP BDE S4; M.:lard, Keith CPT CJTF7-PMO Det OPS cer; COL CFLCC/3A-FWD-377L1TSC Subject:. RE: FRA NGE M1114 UA Redistrib tion
Classif
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from.
there coulJ DE a problem wl.transfer as portraye•. For property book purposes,
these vehirles have to ao to another ARNG unit. We can move them around operationally
wizh hand receipts, but they must remain on an ARNG property book, or we have to get
permission from the Secretary of the Army to make the transfer. I am not a log expert S o
I ca.n no readily assess the validity of his argument, but it sounds reasonable to me. II
know we ce.:.taihi• have major pains transferring equipment from one component to anotheriin

peacetime.. 1

jus had a.the ARNG representative in theater. He said that

Suggest modifying Fray° 70A to move the up-armored HMMWVs to other ARNG units, say the
670th at Camp Bucca and the 186th in Baghdad. Both of these units will be here for a 1

• asnd we ca..-then hand receipt them out as needed.

-From:.CPT CJTF7-800MP BDE OPS
Sent October 18, 2003 10:35
To CPT CJTF7-800MP BDE OPS;.(E-mail);
744M -mail); '800mps3fwd (E-mal.744th MP

-nal );

BN S3
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Subject: FRAGC 70A CHANGE M1114 UA Redistribution

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•
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'om: iiiii MAJ CJTF7-800TH MP BDE S4 1111111111@c5main.hq.c5.arrny.smil.mill it: ues ay,_ber 21, 2003 7• • M .d: 800 MP BDE OPS; T CJTF7-8 MP BDE OPS; 1.11111CPT
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-
Subject: RE: FRA ..
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C`assfitio:-.111111111111

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800 M? BDE OPS
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a- October 21, 2003 3:09 PM
To: T JTF7-800MP BDE OPS;111111111111. CPT
CJTF -MP BN S.

MAJ CJTF7-.744 MP BN;

• 800.

FWD; '744 MP CC: JTF7-800TH MP BDE-S3; 800 MAJ CJTF7-800TH MP BDE S4; CPT CJTF7-PM0 De c , COL CFLCC/3A-FWD-377 TSC Su1D7ecl:.FRAGO 70A CHANGE M1114 UA Redistribution
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lust r.sd a viElt from COL.the ARNG representative in
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be a problem with this transfer as

•
portrayed. For property book purposes, these vehicles have to go to

•
another ARNG unit. We can move them around operationally with hand

. :eceipts, but trey must remain on an ARNG property book, or we have to get permission from the Secretary of the Army to make the transfer. I an not a log expert so I can not readily assess the validity of his argument, but it sounds reasonable to me. I know we certainly have major pains transferring equipment from one component to another in
peacet:me.

Suggest modify:.ng Frago 70A to move the uparmored HMMWVp to other

-

ARNG units, say the 670th at Camp Bucca and the 186th inlBaghdad. Both of these units will be here for a while, asnd we can then hand receipt them out as needed.
-----Origir
From: CPT CJTF7-800MP BDE OPS

•
Sent: Saturda 2003 10:35 AM

•
To: PT CJTF7-800MP BDE OPS;
:E-mail); (E-mail), '800mps3fwd (E-mail ' -mail);

.

'744th MP BN S3 (E-
(E-mail) ; 11111111111111 (Email).
(E-mail)

11111111r:1E-ma ­
. Suzject: OA CHANGE M1114 UA Redistribution
Classir:ca::.Dr.: NEM
•

•
Caveats: NONE

•
Changes highlighted in yellow

Flle: FRAGO 70A [REDISTRIBUTION OF M-114'Sl.d0
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CLasi f 'cat. ion:1M Caveats IJONE.
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