Fay Report Annex: DOD Interview re: Conditions at Abu Ghraib Detention Facility

09 June 2004
MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD
SUBJECT: Procedure 15 Telephonic Interview
On 09 June 2004, 1 conducted a telephonic int rview The following is a
statement based on questions I asked. is currently reviewing his statement and

getting it signed.
DET OKINAWA, 500114 MI GROUP
I arrived at Abu Gluaib on 20 October 03. The first.few days I arrived,CIIIIIIIIIII, took us on a tour of the facilities and we received training on the Interrogating Rules o Engagement. I believe the training was sufficient and I made sure my team understood them. The training was no different than what we had received at the school with the exception of the use of dogs. The school never taught us how to use dogs and we did not know how we could use the dogs. I do not remember anyone explaining how to use the dogs. I remember in casual conversations that dogs were allowed to bark. I remember thinking if you have a dog barking that is not going to be a good interrogation technique. I never used a dog nor did any of my team members. Techniques as sleep deprivation
on the use of dogs. Everyone read the
were a common thing. We were never trained
As far as the commanders go, the training

IROE and signed that they understood them.
I did believe that the junior soldiers could have receiving more training

was sufficient.
science. You never know how a detainee is
because interrogation operations in not a
respond to certain detainees. You cold never get enough training. In

going to
interrogations there are a lot of calls we had to make. It is not a science when dealing

not covered in the IROE come up every day. I was
with people. New things that are
fortunate that I had some more experience individuals. I didn't know anything was going
on until I got back from leave. I was made a section leader for the Force Protection Tiger

Team and took overAIIIIIIIMM team. I was team leader from OCT until DEC
(1't week).

a CACI

My team consisted of
was fired
member (big football physic African American), and a linguist
after h ltime; nothing that had to do with interrogations.)
ther. The first time I went to the Hard Site was on the

theirs ICE NCOIC took us on the tour. I am not 100%
tour of the acidlitthe. sure that the 470` arrive e same time we did. I am pretty sure that they did go on the tour. I was toward the rear of the group because of my leg problem. On the tour I saw detainees mopping the floors. I also saw guys in civilian clothes leading the detainees and military personnel were present as well. I was told the guys in civilian clothes were the Iraqi Police. I did not see any naked detainees during the tour. As far as I know, I never saw a request to interrogate a detainee naked. I do not think anything like that
sa had the okay to have a detainee naked is probably not true. I worked with
quite a bit. I know she would not have approved this. When formations were called, we would be told to read the IROE but we were not told what went wrong and what we needed to do to prevent it. We just wondered "Why we were resigning?" As far as detainee abuse: I do not know if it was but it didn't seem right. One time when I walked through the hard site, I noticed one detainee naked on the mattress. I do not know if he was chained. He was called the "bottle boy" because he shoved a bottle up his ass. I asked the MPs why is he naked? There were NCOs all around and I thought it wasn't right. I told them, "You guys are MPs and I do not know what you can do and cannot do. There was no continuity between MPs and interrogators so that if we see something, we can question it. To me to have a detainee naked was wrong. I was working the day shift. I do not remember who the MPs were. I think there was captain there. I saw him there a couple of times. I was in the area bout 15 times from Octobe to December. 1 did not do interrogations but I sat in on several. I sat in the one with the I guess he was leaving and he wanted glory to take it with him. Another incident I heard about after 1 returned from leave on 2 February 04. I never saw or was aware of any unofficial photos of detainees. The only time I saw someone taking photos was when we went on tour. He was caught and his camera was confiscated. 1 knew nothing about videos. I don't remember ever seeing dogs, but I do remember them coming. The night o th shooting, I was in a different area. We were guarding the LSA. I just remembe
111114 bragging and talking about haying to shoot the detainee. HUMILIATION: the guys with the hair cut. The detainee through interrogator stated they do this without remorse. I t nk 108. MPS had done that. I remembergHe was always the one very friendly. It wasn't him. It was another NCO who was bragging about the clippers running off. I don't really recall OGA except for one time when they wanted to speak to one of our detainees. I rearranged the schedule so that they could speak to the detainee. One of my guys went in with them. It might have beenglinli After they finished, they simply left and did not say thanks. We never saw them again. We INA ISG come by and speak to one of our detainees, but our detainees had such a low profile neither OGA nor ISG wanted to speak to them. We had a job to do where a lot of the tasks go beyond the individual morals and interrogators have to make a judgment calls. As far as women's Underwear: I recall someone saying something about women's underwear. More of a "hey" we should try that Something of that nature. Nothing formal. I remember people laughing over that. 1 do not know howlconversation started or maybe I walked into. 1
Ii want to say it was a CACI guy named (an older guy). He was on my team. His interrogation techniques were very harsh. He once interrogated someone to the point of making them pee. It was g and his analyst (came out laugh'about it. I addressed both of them.). I took FM 34-52 and sat it down withgrand gave him a verbal counseling on his job performance and to have him read the FM 34-52 and follow it.* did not like me telling him how to do his job. He told me, "I have been doing this for 20 years and 1 do not need a 20 yr old tellir me how to do my job. I tot him not to do things of at nature (having detainees awhile interrogated). I told about and he said, "What do you want e to do about it?" I basically had a shoulder turned on me. I spoke to bout other things in particular/Mg report writing skills. I had one guy who worked with COMPUSA who was an investigator and happen. I made pretty regular spot check and never saw any naked detainees. I do not know who the interrogators got approval from. When I went to spot check, the only thing I saw that was humiliating was a detainee who had a Mohawk. The MP (NFI) was bragging that his clippers run out on him an I felt this was % ng and not helping the
was there and witnessedissue. I thought he wasn't helping the issueg a rule but
it and I expected he would do something about it. I didn'tthink it was br g
conducted
it was truly walking a ne line. There w one time whe g detainee (I think detainee number 108).
angrro ation ofg were having a difficult time with thi individual. And in their
ulture dealing with females is lower. wanted a male to go
interrogate. He .v ted to see if he could get something from the detainee. He did not get anything he was
that id not already have. I didn't like the fact that interrogating and wasn't ined to do , but I thought "He is a major and I guessed he had gotten approval from o go in there. Interrogation plans were already being written when I arrived at Abu (ihraib. Everything was a bit Chaotic. The JDIC hadn't been fully stood up. It was a kind of hit and miss on interrogation plans. To say that every time the interrogator went to go interrogate a plan was written down would be false. Support for resources was very limited. There were way too many people for the area we were working out off. People were bouncing off each other. The resources we
had were very limited; only one printer worked half the time. A lot of time we ran out of Interrogation Plan forms so they were written on back of paper. We would scream at the NCOIC and OIC that we needed printing support but there were no printers. All
interrogation plan forms should be kept on the interrogation plan. I might sound like a broken record on interrogation plan, but I mentioned it during the team leader meetings. 1 stated that we needed to do interrogation tans and the needed to be a roved b section le ers t ICE erations;L 'hengas not og was in charge of the was in charge of the JIDC.
Intcrro ation.,Control Element (ICE) and as there but I am not sure what he di Some of e techniques.required to e-mails andgwould review them and
be approved were sengsend it up the chain to ould get it back and give us a Yes . or No. 1 know that during the team leader's meeting we were told that we would get a paper copy back but that it would take a couple of weeks to get it back. If we needed an extended IROE, it would take time to get it approved. I never had an extended IROE ers. I do not thi when I was a team leader we had
request from anv of gdid discuss sleep deprivation on
an extended.g one of our detainees. When an interrogator asked to use a technique re iring ap r val from higher, I would tell them, "Okay this is the procedure memo for nd once it comes back approved, you can do it. But some of the team members would not follow up with the request because it was too much trouble. We had about 440 detainees to interrogate and our list was gr win . I d not remember anyone being naked during interrogations. I can't imaiaine would allow something like that to happen. There might have been some of the lower enlisted trying to push the blame up if they actually did this. The interrogators are not kids and they have been trained at the school. For someone to
was hired on that experience. We did have a report writing class after that but during one of the classes,gwas sitting in the back of the room not even facing the instructor I remember telling this. It is really hard when yo to upper management and you get that in response. You hold this guy's hand? I had gand an African American CACI employee on the same team. I had to switch The African Am gcause he was known to take over interrogations so l placed him with g because
was a strong 97E. The African American on my team was kin of doing Knowledgeability Briefs, but he was hire to as an anal st. I believ gput him to conduct Knowledgeability Briefs. I told' that the CACI guys we were getting had no clue and did not know how to write the reports. I was spending more time editing reports. It would have taken me l/3d of the time if I would have written the reports myself. I did sit do.vn with the AFRICAN AMERICAN CACI guy we had and went over report writing. We were told we neede more interrogations, MORE, MORE, And MORE. ' cared more about numbers and not quality. I mentioned to folks that what was more important; good information or more detainees. I did know INS He was a very nice guy with high morals. My first impression of him was good. He was very motivated to wor . I was surprise to see his name on the investigative report.E
J. MI Investigating Officer