Fay Report Annex: DOD Interview of 470th Military Intelligence Group Sergeant re: Conditions at Abu Ghraib

.NIVACY ACT STATEMENT
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DISCLOSURE 3. TWE 4. FBI NUMBER
IYTTYMAIDD; 2 DATE

1. LOCATION
2004/05/1:111 i2;57
CRYSTAL CITY. VIRGINIA
7. GRADEISTATUS
6. 55/1
FIRST NAME OU NAME SGT

11. ORGMUZATION OR ADORE
B/CO, 470TH MILITARY INTELLIGENCE GROUP, CAMP BULL1S, TX 78254
WANT TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT UNDER OATH:
a me as a section leader for four Tiger Teams after
?I .9
• sat down and discussed my soldier's strength and
w - .en we int arrived, we were given a tour of the Joint interrogation Debriefmg Center (J1DC)• We were told
when to wear our gear. There was no training on interrogations or procedures. We were given a sheet with the Interrogation
Rules of Engagements and .. • - .. . • .t do. We were also told about some of the interrogation

weeks• approval prior to us executing them. Within the first twotechniques which required • .. . surprised me about the 'ROE 'was that certain' approaches
of our arrival, we were gi . .., . •
required a certain level of approval while others that I felt should have required approval were acceptable. When I asked about
. Ill,. • , -..,. .1 - •-..1 , • . .r .„ ge was
them, I was told that is what had been approved and • t J and
61/ • 11 . e teams I had corset -. • II,

11916,9.5
11 • • . OM h the teams were already ••1 • '
able. When I too over as e • 1
when I first arriv -•
t . to our roles. I conducted an initial counseling o r my personae
rt: ,
being experienced but ' ven though they had been • -. • w. i
,. .., 9 ' • avy t
had .a problem with authority. I 1' • ' '— lo '.
were ..t experienced. I felt that Abu Guraib. He had a problem •• •. i,e military. He did not like the way the
did not have any interrogation exp
military chain of command functioned. And be didn't view the chain of command as something he needed to follow. I worked
I would do my best to train them during Sergeant's Time. We

with all my teams and asked them to tell me what they knew,.
would focus on • ' a s, different type of approaches. paperwork. and report writing. I would help them rewrite their
ireally had a hard time writing his reports and they often had to be rewritten. He would ask me to help

memorandums. 1 s and I gave him some correspondence course manuals on approaches. I felt I had strong analysts, but
him with some ap. • .
they needed a lot of supervision. I conducted interrogauons as needed or as time permitted. I usually assisted with interrogations
when the interrogator could not break a detainee. My workload was too much and there were too many issues to deal with. I didn't really get very much sleep. The average number of interrogations each team was required to conduct were two per team per day. All of my soldiers struck me as very intelligent. The detainee abuses I witness are as follows: One of my jobs was to go check on my soldiers and the detainees. When we moved to the night shift, I would go to the cellblocks to speak to the MPs. I usually went with another interrogator or by myself. I went to am. 'gilant during the day to rnov we were going to interrogate du: in the ni:..t. I know that p gunfire, L I, was scheduled to interro te tet another detainee
had mentioned that _,, • glit have a gun. nocif -.• the ...•.•• of command. Instead o going to interrogate.
• find out if he h capon. had gone to visit him at the h spi find ow when he had
the MPs approached I
gotten t‘g. He found out that an IP had brought the gun ... • - er weapons in to We de time after the gunfight, I
had shot, was on duty
as back. I went to check on him in the cell. I was surprised to see the MP who
beard vas
a good idea. He told me he • •cln't really want to beguarding the secuon where he was. I asked the P if e thought this wase cell he had been in prior to the incident. I walked to histhere but that he could be professional about it. was in the found ithout clothes, no blanket or mattress. His wounds werecell to check up on him. It was very cold that tu t
still bleeding and he still bad the catheter in. He did not haVe e bag just the catheter. I yelled at the MP and asked for the NCOIC. I asked why was the detainer without any clothes and no blanket. He said they didn't have any clothes or blanket. I told him he better find some. I went over to the Medical site and told the specialist on duty to get the doctor. It was after 2200hrs and the specialist told me that the doctor ( a COLONEL) did not want to be bothered unless it was an emergency. I told
un • was an emergency and to wake the Colonel. The Colonel asked me what I wanted. I asked him if be was aware that till had a catheter in. He said yes that the CSH had made a mistake. I asked him "can't you take it out'. He said no cause the CSH put it in so the CSH had to take it out. I told him this was unacceptable. He asked me what did I want him
do. I told him to take it out. He said he couldn't do it and that the detainee was due w go back to the CSH the following day.
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THE BOTTOM OF EACH ADOMONAL PACE MUST BEAR THE INITIALS Of TNF PERSON MAKING THE STATEMENT. AND PAGE NUMBER MUST SE SE INDICATED.
IIMPAVIA
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• interrogation and a copy of the report be provided to me. I did get both requests. The only other thing about OGA is that I was told that one of their detainees died of a heart attack in our detention facility while being interrogated. The detainee was taken out on a stretcher and treated as if he was sick so as not to upset the other detainees. In De 0... er, I tol that 1 didn't want to be involved in interrogations anymore
INITIAL OF PERSWING STATEMENT PAGE 211!fil.ME
rave the ost qualified interrogators but I questioned some of the interro ators on the team. as very aggressive and I refused to work with him I tol that I though as a lose cannon and a jail sentence waiting to happen. I had been in the booth wi i efore and I felt that he and I clashed as interrogators. One day when I went up to one o the camps, I began to speak to one of the MPs on duty. He told me he didn't know I was the NCOIC. He thought thatplivas because he always av his name as a point of contact. 1111E liked to B wi the MPs. In reference to shaving detainees head, I know we had a head lice problem and we had to shave off the hair. IF the shavir
atas done for interrogation approach purposes, it was an exception to
ROE. Once, and I had a conversation about the use of dogs. He and another
SGT wanted to used them as part of a drawn out approach. I told him that there were
aspects of the approach that were crossing the line. He disc eed with me and wanted to
go higher up the chain of command. We took the issue to He didn't listen
to me very often because he always had others from the chain of command that supported
him and told him he was doing a great job. Most of the requests we submitted were on
sleep deprivation and we did get some approved. The requests should be in the JIDC, but
I can believe them getting lost because we often lost complete files. Our filing system
was not the best. We did not have serviceable fie cabinets and teams were given
approval to place file in cardboard boxes. One day when I briefed LTG SANCHEZ and
MG FAST, I was asked what support we needed.. I gave her my list. File cabinets and
safes were on the list. MG FAST delivered about 40% of the list, but no file s ets.
Civilians were placed in position of authori . One of the CACI employees,
lace harge of screening. was in charge of B Section.
as in charge of the Detainee Assessment Board (DAB). Who did I
in charge? When I first arrived, I knew was in charge of the Interrogation
Control Element (ICE). I knew COL PAPPAS was the Brigade Commander but h
never there. He later lived in the ICE area though. I knew that an
were there but honestly I do not know what their true ro es were.
was more involved with housing issues and didn't really get involved with interrogations so when he would call formations and was giving us orders in relation to interrogations, I questioned that. Once he held a formation to incorporate a new "salute" policy. I raised my hand and asked him how that would affect the interrogators who use
.a different rank as approaches. He yelled at me and said ne wouldn't argue this with me. I felt it was wrong for him to be involved in interrogation rules or procedures with no interrogation back ound. I don't thi undaries were clear to anyone, including him. I know reported to but I did not know what he did. I found this out during one etings when was trying to give her opinion, she was told by to be quiet and back down. As far as ghost detainees I didn't deal too much with them. We had a board in the ICE that showed all the cells to include those that had "OGA" on them. I was told the detainees in those cells belonged to OGA and we shouldn't be conce e e . I was told that I did not have to allow OGA to see my detainees. When was ere and I denied their request, the chain of command backed me up. Once left, my requests to den OG s to my detainees were denied by my chain of command. p
might have more information. She worked more with them.
A would take my detainees I would ask that one of our interrogators sit in on th
INITIAL OF PERSON MAKING STATEMENT PAGE! Allit
11111111
tllkrticle 15 and the max punishment; 11111111111should get an Article 15 with less punishment. The third individual should be counseled and told what was wron with the . incident and probably trained, myself and a couple others (whom I can't re discussed the incident. We went through everything that happened and how had done a ``strip interrogation". I was asked again for my recommendation and I gave the same recommendation. WNW also gave the same basic recommendation. took several days to make a decision but no Article 15s were given. I be eve that told me they received a local letter of reprimand. The incident was apparently kept quiet. My soldiers would ask me what happened, I told them that I made my recommendations and could not discuss them. I believed had a clear understanding of her boundaries. Any advice I gave her, s e was real quit to pick it . I was very shocked when I found out what she had done. After the incident, shut down with me. She was pulled from my section and reassigned. She wouldn't speak to me anymore. I knew she had a good understanding of the IROE but I felt she could not distinguish the difference between right and wrong. left on leave and things were still being run the same. When word got ou a y of returning, things went down hill from then on. I spoke to and told him that everyone was doing whatever he or she wanted and I Fe-quested to be relieved as the Section Leader. My section was selected to be a special project section by This project was to interrogate those who could not be broken. This project did not last long because we requested permission to use techniques that required approval from higher but we never received the approval or it took to Ion to get a response. I had requested to be taken away from interrogations. After was captured, was selected to be in a special project and departed for a while. I was told he no longer reported to me and belonged to someone else. My opinion was that was not that experienced, but my opinion did not matter. His reports were very bad and he often had to rewrite them but he was very people oriented and someone in the chain of command thou t he was a good interrogator. He had 30 detainees, but he only concentrated on five. and his four associates. Riivf as very ignorant of a lot of the procedures. He was strong willed and proud o the act that he could get along with almost everyone. Others in the chain of command considered him one of the best interrogators. I had requeste•throu to havellig taken out of my section and was told that go en c d" and I would e moved before they would mov d came and told me I was no longer the section leader. I asked him w y was •mg relieved, "because I had requested it or for another reason?" He said he didn't know. He said the decision came from higher than him. I saw I told him that I needed to know why. I told him that if I had done something wrong, someone should have seled me and given me a chance to correct what I was doing wrong but no one had. told me he was sorry and that I hadn't done anything wrong. I asked him if ad made the decision, he said he didn't know. Everyone knew that had a personal problem with me. Some of the decisions made at Abu G '13 were made on personal opinions not rofe onal. replaced me as the section leader. We were all, Section Leader for new Special Project) and given a new project. e were receiving direction straight from This special project was supposed toile
INITIAL OF PERSON MAKING STATEMENT PAGE of 7WE
IMF
notifi and she went to stop 1111111111from interrogatin . I think
she had some arguments from others in the ain of command about
being allowed to have "contact" with detainees. At that moment, ere were no
interrogation plans. I took my teams and told them "do not do anything you would
normally not do. Watch yourself." I interrogated one IP who might have known who
brought the gun. After being unsuccessful, I handed him over to the MPs to process him
as a detainee. I saw no dogs that evening. If an interrogator asked an MP to have a dog
bark near a detainee who was being interrogated or questioned and if that interrogator
told the detainee that if he did not answer the questions they were going to sick the dog
on him, that would have been a violation of the IROEs. If they did it without a prior
approval from higher, they were wrong and would be pulled from interrogations
immediately. I constantly made comments to my section about not doing anything
without my approval. Obviously, things occurred without my approval but as soon as I
found out about misbehavior, I took action. Sometimes I was supported by the chain of
command and sometimes I wasn't. There was no doubt in my mind that my section
understood my rules about approving approaches before they went in the booth and
following procedure for exceptions to IROE. There was a rumor about three male
interrogators who had done an interrogation with a female. If a gathering was called for
this incident, I do not remember since we were always having formations for
here he appeared to be agitated. One.evening, around 0200 or 0300 hours
ther
—tee we e some administrative issues I was busy dealing with from higher.
came to me and said he needed to speak to me. I told him to wait and he said he need
to speak to me now. I hun u the hone and began to speak to him. He told me that
and her analyst ad just screwed up. She had just walked a naked
detainee across the camp. told him to get them in now. When they came to me, I asked
what had happened. They both did the talking. said she had questioned
the detainee and he would not answer and he had a attitude so she stripped him of his
clothes. I asked her if the detainee was naked when she walked him back into the
compound (Vigilant) and she said she gave him a blanket. I told her that we had had riots
and this event could have caused a not if the detainees saw a female walking a naked
detainee. I told her she did not have this in her interrogation plan I had signed and that
traeving her from interrogations pending me noti e chain of command. III
was nervous and very remorseful. concerned me with her
attitude. No matter how I explained it to her, she still didn't feel that she had done
anything wrong. This event happened even after I had a session with everyone in my
section about what they could and could not do. I went to see the MPs and asked if the
detainee was clothed and if the had had y problems. I asked them to log it and write
an incide I notified when she came on duty around 0600 or 0700
hours. asked us o waste sworn statements. I found out during the sworn
statement writing that there was a third soldier who was involved but h d new
and was sitting in the interrogation for the first time. I think ad a
problem with me being her supervisor because we were specialists together at D I and I
had gotten promoted before she did. ust seemed to be burned out. I had told
him before that if he had any questions to as me and he did come to me on some
occasions to bounce things off of me. Later that day, wanted to talk tom..
me and asked for my recommendations. I told him that should get 4.r

INITIAL OF PERSON G STATEMENT PAGE of 7 PAGE
fine t you do what you have to do, I am going back to boil!
,
Was with me during this incident. After to. c COLO the night OIC or
notified my supervisor. I don't remember if it was when he .came in for day shift. I tol the COLONEL migh t be a as on leave at this time. I do not lm what

bit u set.
did after I told him. I believe thatas taken to the CSH the or.o not know if the MPs recorded it. They kept a log, but it was not
following day.
detailed or accurate. I asked to see the log and they had not recorded the incident. I also on
notice they had not recorded some other incidents which I knew had happened based what my soldiers told me. When I went to check on a detainee, I would go straight todid not want the
their cell and did not look at other detainees for several reasons, I
detainees to see me because I might interrogate them at some point and I did not want
them to see me in other circumstances than in the interrogation booth. It was also too
dark in the cells to see anything unless the detainee was right up against the cell door.
Sometimes a detainee would call out to me as I walked by. They asked us for things. I
tried to minimize my contact with them. I never saw an MP kick, punch or push a
detainee. There were sometimes when I questioned their actions. Once, I noticed that a
detainee was wet and cold. His blankets were also wet. The detainee stated that the MPs
had washed their clothes and gave it back to them wet. I went to the MPs and told them
to get the detainee dry clothes. They said they did not have any, I told him to get some. I
can't remember the date; it must have been in December because it was fairly cold
outside. I believe this occurred in the late ni ttime or earl mornin . I believe the
or was one of my
linguist with me was L
favorite linguists. He was very good. In referenCe to female panties, I remember seeing the detainees wearing them. Anyone who walked out to the cell should have seen them. I didn't report it because I thought they were approved. This was considered an acceptable approach and the MPs did it for disciplinary action. I personally never signed off on an interrogation plan on this technique. If one of my Tiger Team members purposely did this without my signature, I would have recommended removal from interrogations. The MPs had some detainees handcuffed to the cell door. I asked them if this was part of their SOP, the r shed with, "What SOP?" My first line supervisor I would r •ort it to was We had daily me s the section .. I eaders 1 and myself attended. and/or
ometunes atten 1 section leaders sho have been aware of the
women's un erwear. My section didn't use the dogs for interrogations. At GTMO we
used the dogs for security purpose during in processing. In Iraq, the dogs were used
differently. They were used during a shake down and inside the first line of concertina
wire in the camp. The dogs if they had been used for interrogations, would be used as a
fear up and needed an approval from hi er.After the e, my section came on duty
while the LP questioning was going on. ad ordered an IP round up and
they were all uestioned. The team we were replacing had been at it for over 12 hours. I
spoke to the and asked if he wanted my team to take over. He
said yes. I cleared it with e ain of command and my soldiers relieved the other
teams. I do not remember where 41111110 was at this time.
ere. on duty and maybe as well.
Y re icy of her interrogation duties and I found her interrogatin
INITIAL OF KING STATEMENT PAGE rolifliY,
AGO 000253

STATEMENT tC•atin I di
o.I • ' f r eek and then I was placed back on interrogations on a specialShortly afterwards I became the re and that there were several incidents that I felt uncomfortableteam. While on this team, I to
with and reqUested to be taken out of an interrogator roe. said would assist as an advisor but not to go back into interrogations. One incident occurred when I was running an interrogation on an Iraqi general who was being questioned in relation to SADAM's capture. I reported to COL. PAPPAS that I was getting nowhere with the detainee. I was later called into
It was a JORDANIAN MAJOR. A warrant officer (I can't remember his
the ICE and told there would be someone assisting inc.name) told me to brief the JORDANIAN on everything I had on the ggieral. I asked to speak to the warrant officer outside. I e of the information waiSECRET/NOFORN. He told me to do what I was told. 1
told him that I could not do that came out and wanted to blow what had happened and I told him it was antold him not if it was unlawful.
OPSEC violation. He told me just to give him the Jordanian the unclass version and take him into the booth. While in the booth, I introduced him as my colleague. The translator introduced him wrong and stated that the JORDANIAN was my assistant. I told the detainee that I was getting nowhere with him and that I was going to leave him with 'my colleague (the Jordanian). The detainee jumped up and told me he would tell me whatever I wanted to know. The following day, another interrogator went in to talk to the detainee without consulting me. This totally ruined the rapport I had established with the detainee. Another issue was an OPSEC issue; I felt that we were putting too much information in the SIPR database. I felt we developed tear lines for a reason, but they were not being used. All the information on a detainee's background was posted plus the number of times he
• • interrogator. In reference to
was interrogated, personnel reading the reports would then be able to link thephotos: Sometime after the CID investigation, around March or April 2004, (who lived in the same cell block I lived in) came to me and handed me a thumb drive. When she told me that a guy had told her that she had left it in the Internet
MPs
cafe. I told her it wasn't mine. We decided to look in the es hon it belonged to. We saw several
it twith dead bodies and -vIPs with detainees. WI recognized in several ph w and tole him we found
because the photos appeared to be something that shoul h pictures of detainees and how we had rn. ooked at the p otos and told us to write
sworn statements on what we knew. o • me later that the photos were not that bad. I do not know what happened after that. I know that one of the files tos and th re se eral files. I was shown some photos and was able to identify some individuals. Photo 3 file shows c era. There are some dog handlers
with two dogs barking at a detainee. 4 was very c ose with They would both hang out and watch movies together. She would sit on hi ap or under a blanket very close I saw because she and I lived in the same area and he would comeea v it her. Photo 6 on file named shows -a picture with an analyst who worked in the FAC. He was called for H . stan'th his back acing us and he is looking down at naked cuffed
Rrotwd. Photo 23 on file how leaning against the left wall facing the naked detainees on the
detainee 4 is in the photo as we . e is wearing shorts and is lookin sown etain Photo 25 on file acing away looking down at the detainees. Photo 54 on file shows a CACI employee)
wt r 1 aTinguist) interrogating a detainee who appears to be in a dangerous s s position sitting on a air with his back exposed an• a concrete floor to his back. The ICRC came by to visit but I was never made aware of the ICRC results.
Q. is there anything else you woul like to add to this statement?
A. No.
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AFFIDAVIT
I, , HAVE READ DR HAVE HAD READ TO ME THIS STATEMENT
WHICH BEGINS ON PAGE 1, AND ENDS ON PAGE 7 LIT UNDERSTAND THE CONTENTS OF THE ENTIRE STATEMENT MADE
BY ME. THE STATEMENT IS TRUE. I KAYE INITIALED ALL CORRECTIONS AND HAVE INITIALED THE BOTTOM OF EACH PAGE CONTAINING THE STATEMENT. I HAVE MADE THIS
STATEMENT FREELY WITHOUT HOPE OF BENEFIT OR REWARD. WITHOUT THREAT OF PUNISHMENT, AND WITHOUT COERCION, UNLAWFUL INFLUENCE, OR UNLAWFUL INDUCEMENT.

(Swann of hosonMakag Swann
Subscribed and sworn to before me, a person authorised by taw to
WITNESSES:
administer oaths, tlin 18th day at MAY , 2004
at CRYSTAL CITY V

ORGANIZATION OR ADDRESS (Sgoalios of Pomo Admoustetay tAl
(Typed Nasse o Poison &mot:twang Oath)

UCMJ, ARTICLE 36
ORGANIZATION OR ADDRESS Mothonty To Asimouster Oaths)
INITIALS OF PERSON MAKING STATEMENT PAGE
%PAPA V I 10:1
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