CaseMap Facts Report - [Redacted] Interview 1 or Linked to Source(s): "Patrick Rowan Interview Notes 2/4/05"

The document includes notes from interviews conducted with FBI personnel [Redacted], regarding his knowledge of FBI operations and involvement at U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, detainee-related issues that were brought by the FBI to the Department of Justice, and the ineffectiveness of Department of Defense interrogation techniques.

Tuesday, February 24, 2009

Casa/lap Facts Report
Interview 1" or Linked To Source(s): "Patrick Rowan Interyiew Notes 2/4/05" -
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Filter: Linked To Source(s) (b)(6) bX7)(c)
Case: FBI in Military Zones
Created: 2/24/2009 12:14:16 PM
Iiate.Sc Time -Vact Tent 'Source(s}.
To Be (li)(([(6)(7)1C) fhlffilfhlININ (-

__ _I said that, as counsel to GC, he was aware of Federal Bureau of Investigation
1 operatiohs at U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and elsewhere, and that Federal
Bureau of Investigation- may have been interested in certain detainees, but no sense of
Federal Bureau ofInvestigation operations in these zones. 0))
Interview Notes
2/4/05j(h1(61f 6471:XI I
Interview I
To Be (6)(61 (6)17)(C) said that, at some point, he became aware that F-vas-at.I.I.S -11111161 ihnin I
Determined Naval Base Guantanamo Bay,.Cuba. (LI) Interview Notes -
2/4/05,f0M61 ihn7iiD
Interview l
To Be
01.1(0.001) said he couid not recall when he first learned about Federal Bureau of libil6li611i7lD
' Investigation presence in military zones. (U)
. Interview Notes
2/4/051(61(6) (Nig)
Interview I
To Be
1(61(61,(6117)0) I said that, when he served as (3)(6) (b)(7)(C) I MIN 00171(CI I
(b)(6) (b)(7)(C) as not aware what, &any, advice was sought re. Federal Interview Notes
Bureau at investigation's presence in overseas venues. (U). 2/4105,1000CA
Interview 1
Tolle .
(6)(6),(Ni7/0 I said that, at some point, he became-aware of couversations.between Office 114(6),(6)(7)(C)
of the General Counsel - FBI and Counter Terrorism Division - FBI, but not extent or
content. (U)
Interview Notes
2/4/05, (b)(6).(b)(7)(C)
jraerview 1
To Be .
th)(614b)(7tcl _said he was aware, While in Office of the General Counsel - FBI, of the 1(h)(6/lbln(C)
Behavioral Anal sis Unit. U Interview Notes
DATE: - Z010
C I Fl a. BY 651 L.I91
1.4 ic ISoarce);
00) (ORO
2/4/05, (121(6),lbill
Interview 1
To Be
(4614)(7)(e) said that a lot of detainee-related issues popped up —Federal Bureau of (bll6MbH7R
would bring them to DW. Also, if a USA() wanted:access to an individual.
Criininal Division would help. (U)
2/4/05, fbrR 6),(b).(71
Interview I
To Be
said that David Nabmias was his predecessor as counsel to the AAG for Criminal
avid Nahmias became Deputy AAG. (U)
Interview Notes 2/4/05
To Be
id one issue he was aware of was the Department of Defense was taking
to get military commissions going, and to get detainees into the pipeline for
Interview Notes
2/4/05, (b)(6),(a)(7)(1)
Interview E
To Be
1(b)(0,(b)(7lle) said there was a regular Policy Coordinating Committee meeting, chaired by (b)(6),(Wealtrl
theNational Security Council at the White House; then issues could get bumped up to the
Deputy's meeting — either the DA.G personally or his designee, like Pat Philbin (ADAG for
enc tional Security); then elevated higher to the Principals meeting. (U)
Interview Notes
2/4/05 14(6).(b)(7111)
Interview t
To Be
(h)(6), blMlC) said he was aware of concern about the ineffectiveness of Department of 1b)(61,11W1(C1 I
Defense interrogationtechniques, not aware of concerns re legality. (U)
Ib)l6Mbrin said' —hid him U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba did
Interview 1
Interview Notes
To Be (b)(6f.(110(c)
paler mined not work well ur terms of intell gathering; Department of Defense personnel lacked training
and experience. For example, Department of Defense interrogation specialist aught be
reservist who in real life runs a Dunkin Donuts store, with no sense of what it took to build
raDOOn. so he Ivould iust scream at the detainees,
Interview Notes
2/4/05, (bx4(14(7)(C)
Interview I
To Be
(b)(6),lb)(74€) told Iti as aware of rumors of (b)(6),(b)(7)(1)
Israeli flag
stuff, ani6Mb)(7)(1) sophomoric, wpm essional, but not abusive, 'Le., Interview Notes
incident. (TS) 2.44/05
Interview i
To Be (b)(61,(NRD said the Policy Coordinating Committee re. detainees met every 2 weeks or (4(6),113)(7)(C)
DIG -INTV-001222
happened. She thinks the "weekly' meetings with Department ofJustice -- she thinks may
actually have been.Policy Coordinating Committee
1:46:25 - 1:47:27
meetings not meetings with Criminal Division attorneys. I lreferenees Bruce
Swartz having.communicated concerns to DOD/OCIC -- she just recalls the John Bellinger
telephone call. There may be other things where-his memory waS a little foggy. •
To Be
Parsky requested that a copy of our draft report go directly to the Criminal Diviiion for its
Laura Parsky
Interview 1 at
To Be
laura Parsky 15i (WO 164711C1 and1ib1161 (Wig were-two people at Department ofJustice Laura Parsky
Interview 1. at
1•,51:20 -1;54:05
whom we could talk re, the get a better-understanding of the 1984 MOLT with Department of
, Defense regarding the investigation and prosecution of certain crimes,
'(b)(5),(b)(6) Laura Peaky
Interview 1 at
Laura Parsky
Interview 1 at
1:08:10 - L:11:00
NO/ 01
To Be r, said he worked with Counter Terrorism Division - FBI, John S. Pistole on these
Determined tleg. it said there was a daily Secure Video Teleconference iu which CrintinalDivision,
Office of the Deputy Attorney General, Office of the Attorney General, Office of
Intelligence Policy Review, and the Federal Bureau o€ Investigation Director participated.
To Be (b)(6),(13)0)(C) said that, at some point, there was an attempt to do 'public diplomacy" on
Determined i3.$. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cutia.1(b)(0,(h)(7 (C) aid that David Nahmias said to
be inindful of the case ofirwilt j because Department of Defense would not be in a
position to defend how tliey treated Isaid it was not clear it it was
'indefensible' because of poor supervision.or because Department of Defense had
deliberately made a decision it was unwilling to defend. (U)
To Be 1(h)t6).(11) (9 said Office of Legal Counsel gave advice generally on interrogation, and
Determined thus cost d have been involved. He said the Field Manual (FM) 34-53. itself is inconsistent
with law enforcement practice. He said Behavioral Analysis Unit wrote a critique of what
was haopeninn in U.S. Naval Base Guantanant•Bay, Cuba; he said David Nahmias gave
tafOIit copy of it after (b)(6),(471(C) cane on board at DOI
[Catherine pls. decipher notes here .111111111.. 'Et had-happened. No
signifieant changes. Not sure what level it was s are. ' Inc person - big•cleal • let Federal
Bureau of Investigation have a crack at hint. Federal Bureau.of Investigation (U)
aid that, post Abu Ghraib Prison Scandal, lie. first heard Federal BUreatt of
Investigation policy that it did notwant to "take advantage of Department of Defense
Interview Notes ?/4/05
Interview Notes
2/4/05, 0101447)(€1
Intervi r.w Notes
Interview '1
Interview Notes '
2/4/05; 011(61,4b1l71(0
(14(6),(In4 said Department of Defense had many important responsibilities -- it cares . about all important issues but some issues it can't resolve, (implicitly saying interrogation
problems being aniong.thern]
Intanyiaoku I
Interview Notes
2/4105, (10,(b)(7[cl
To Be
To Be
Determined told him rumors of crazy stuff, hi t Irina) ib117)(E) [never heard [say rumor
tin(6),(14(7)(C) said he wad not aware of abuse --• just 'crazy" stuff. He said (11161,0)(7)P
Interview Notes
was a, detainee was beaten up. (I))(61, said he did not hear details about any female 2/4/05,
interrogation. Interview 1
E. C., FE r FBI
(1)01 thY7)(c)
Catherine— pis add some context to make MeaningfuE:
"Review other agency rules for comparison of rules." (U)
When asked what he would have done had be known about allegations of abuse, (4014NaCl
(1)) 6147)1 Isaid Department of Defense is a "heavily lawyered' organization and that, much as
it would be easy for hint to say he would have written memos and.made phone calls
immediately, be thinks that Department of Defere believed it was doing what it thought it
could do legally. When asked at what paid the Crintinal Division would have become
interested from a prosecution perspectii/e, (14(6),(b)(7)1C) said there were many problems
with applying US criminal law against military personnel on an overseas base, though he
said that Uniform Code orMilit Justice would apply. (U)
ib)(6;,(b)(7)1C) said he served a (b)(6) (6)(7)(C) on
detail to Executive Office fo (h)(6t (iniNc) 1(U)
10nn003 (b)(6),(b)(7)(, 'said he served a counsel to the (111161{471(C)
011610}(71(a reviously he served as an attorney in the Federal Bureau or
Investigation OGC fromliblI6ltb117116 First 5 months of that he wa> h 6 b
(MO (1n1019 QC Kenneth L. Weinstein, then 2'months a
j(b)(6) rbirel included 6 b
tbk6 ltbli N n
itritm minx-hen...3 months as
l0/77/2003 - (b1(6).(b)(:)(c) said that, as soon as he started-asl(b)(6)(b)(7)(C)
??/??/2006 involved in detainee issues. Be said he served on an inter-ageney wOrkinggronT for
assessing detainee statue — whether they would be released, transferred to their country of
-citizenship, or-hpl at Zr S Nay alBase Guantanamo say, Cuba hey of threat or intell. Every
couple of we (NM li))(7)(g Isaid he would receive a package from{ }. or
(1"-P )(70 jl3) when lie was acting -- related to detainee status. He said when tie.
arrived at_Criminal Division, it was atransitional rinse, and that, prior to his arrival. Federal
Buie tigation would bring GITMO issues to DO/. [pz: last point is confusing]
(Lai id would sometimes attend Policy Coordinating
Com ings (uy
lo Be
0 l/7?/199
Interview Notes
Interview I
Interview Notes 2/4/05
Interview Notes
Interview Notes
Interview 1
Lutes w Notes
2/4/05 (6)09,lb1( l0
Interview I 1:6 Pel Fr,"
.Interview Notes
2/4105, fhNiChnCI
Interview I
1O ??/2003
12)(0,11))(7)(C) said that he would sometimes get involved in educating U.S. Attorneys'
offices about the fact that they could not use detainees as witnesses. Problems with bring
them into the country — they get lawyers and we can't speak to them anymore -- and we
have a continued need to net inter from them (U)