CaseMap Facts Report - Bruce Swartz Interview 1

The document includes notes from interviews conducted with FBI personnel Bruce Swartz, regarding his knowledge about FBI concerns related to the mistreatment of detainees as well as his knowledge related to incidents of alleged detainee mistreatment and abuse.

Tuesday, February 24, 2009

DAZE: 02- ts-zoto
FBI Iwo.
CLA5SIFID BY 65179 DIN/143
'REASON: 1.4 (c (Sousce)
DECZASSITY OE: 02-19-2035
Cap Facts Report
Filter: Linked Te Souree(s): "Brace-Swartz Interview P 26 of 7911(0.3%) Filtered
Case: FBI n Militm7 Zones
Crested; 2/24/2009 11:48:18 AM
'bid Text . ,
- •
To Be 2:00. Bruce Swartz stated he served as Dep Mit AO Criminal Division Ian 2000 to puma Bruce Sw. orn
Determined 2:34. He supervises lbw offices: Office &International Affidn MAX 'kid handles ail Interview 12:00. -
criminal Amiga policy .of the United States (including liaison with Department of State and 5:50
National Security Council); Office of Prosecutorial Development and Training (OPDAT),
ICITAP, and Counter-espionage. 4:14. As-of 9/11/05 Bruce Swartz said he mons to Alice Fisher.
4:44. Liam that it was Tun Robinson was AAG when Swartz started, then Michael Chen*
the ennifer 1K eenan was si_then _Chrism_ _Wra. 1then John Richter. 5:50.
To Be (b)(5) Brute Swartz
Determined Interview 1 5:50 -
16:35' '
This presented difficult urisdictional issues, 1635.
To Be
The,013lce of the Inspector General asked whether BrUce Swartz was made aware of Federal
Bureau of Investigation ecncents about mamma of detainees? 17/9. Bruce Swartz said it was
apparent,. from Dec 2002 on, to anyone who read the newspaper, that there were concerns-about
Bruce Swartz
Interview 1 16:35
- 27:54
. . .

—.:.......................0.,_._:_..naa ,r14. (b)(5)
1(b)X5) llitruce Swartz shared the concern
that -listaliintelie was not being Sather ancitlintanogationiwere not be conducted hi
to achieve the edited= of vahiable intelligence.. 2136. Bruce Swank said till
him about the military posing as Federal Bureau of lavemigatiOn agents and
interrogating people in a room with the Bag of Israel. 22:43, Bruce Swartz said he learned fide
thi were MdingS4mPle t° N9494 ids who had 'Malty notexpetientela
rtigatitins and had no lw1 wled They would ask the game questions oVer and
over and then rotate out. 22:59. ' it was i'itIttgaWiad
ineffective, if not directly :04. Anyt have said
to-Laulelarsicy, Bruce Sierra would hayeleard as welt 23:30. Laura Peaky remembers
hear* about the sexually provocative tacticsimearing Bruce Swartz
said he would have heard about that. boat Laura Parsky o
he does not
recall.hearing about it at that time. 23:49. Bruce Swartz says lie would have thought it was a
gum mistake, something that would come hack to haunt us, and soinethin,g.tbat would be an
embarrassment, that would amount to criminal conduct 24:28. The one
exception is told Bruce Swartz that someone was told that they were going to
he taken up into a helicopter and thrown °into usi, and they were actually taketrto a-helicopter
landing zone for that purpose. 24:46. That struck Bruce Swartz as amomting to torture. Bruce
Swartz raised it with at the National ' Council. 25:22. Bruce Swartz was told that
b6 Per FBI
b6 Per FBI
Naval-Criminal Investigative Service looked into it, and concluded that no such incident took
place. 25:41. Bruce Swartz said that his "generaliand" concerns, including his Mace= about
that incident, may have led to a depudes-level meeting about the treatment of detainees at U.S.
Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. 26:18. Bruce Swartz believes he :motioned it to Laxly
Thompson. 26:33. The flan That it was discredited is "eniblereatic." Everything that was
reported was "anecdotal. They had no mime report or indicetion that someone believed a crime
had taken placy nothing solid to stand on. Since Bruce Swathes positions on U.S. Naval Base
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba were well known, he said "h Was imitate:late that I chose to bring
forward an event that was not able to be birtantiated. becalms then it seamed to have whole
to it as well? 27:19. b 5
To Be
(bo)o( 5) Department of Justice and Deparanentof Deihnse
the position that U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is outside the jurisdiction ofthe
criminal court, so
problematic," 28:53. (b)(5)
1,, •1.1. V
Bruce Swartz
Interview 127:54
- 32:02
Tolite„Emil Swarm says he believes he first learned about the 'helicopter incideie Bruce Swartz
Determined I 1 32:42. This may have been at Department ofkotice or while traveling to a Interview 132:02-
Coordi Committee 33:04. Bruce Swarm does not know if was 35:27
b6 Per FBI
b6 Per EMI
rimgn when he slif 33:3,
(b)(5) Bruce Swartz did not know the identity °Madeleine. 33:54. Bruce Swartz says
he was told that the detainee waseaken to the "landing zone,* be was terribly frightened. 34:00.
Bruce Swartz was net sore when he learned about din, he thought it was probably early 2003.
, To Be
(b)(5) Bruce Smite -
Interview 1 35:27
- 38:02
To Be

Bruce Swartz thinks he learned of the *helicopter incident" on the way over to he White House,
and then mentioned it to John Bellinger and maybe 'i sDeputy. 39:18. This hi Into the
argument that we should mave :people off LW Naval Bate Guantanamo'Bay, Ctibe, Brute Swartz
Bruce Swartz
Interview I 3802 ,
- 44:7.4

said_ 39:58,1111)(5) 1
(b)(5) The ongoing theme
was the ineffective end wrongheaded. practice of the interrogations - that was raised regularly at
the sub-PCC meetings. 41:11. Jock Sherrill (ph) may have been John Bellingees deputy at these
meetings. 41:41. Bruce Swartz said that John Ashcroft, to his credit, vires anxious to move
people offD.S. Naval Bass Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, paniculady those who were not enemy
combatants or those where the evidence was not clear that they were enemy combatants. He was
regularly pushing for repatriation at the Principals level, according AO Bruce Swartz 42:18. the
relationship -between Department of:wilco and Department ofDefense was somewhat
antagonistic on the issue of whether valuable intelligence was being gathered. 42:47. There were
some uncomfortable momenta al:those meetings. Bruce-Swarts felt strongly that if semen= was
determined not to be an enemy combatant, they he should be returned without delay. 42:45. That
,,vas.a constant theme. 42:54.. This instance of misconduct (helicopter) if Me, we:further reason.
b6 Per DK
43:13, Bruce Swam does not 'mow it Ashcroft raised the eftlectivenera•issue. 43:29. In
briehngs of Ashcroft at Department of instice in advance of tiss Principals meetings, there was
ektensive &occasion of the inability of Department of Defense to determine who.sbduld be in
these categories and the numbers kept shifting. 44:01. As to the interrogation, Bowe Swartz
personal view is that very little actionableintelligence came from U.S. Naval Base Gnaws=
Bay. Cuba. 44:24. . .
To Be
Determined .
Bruce Swartz has not heatable to find any dobinnerds or notes about the-helicopter incident,
44:49. Bruce Swartz has not since that date, that there was such an incident. 45:07. Bruce
Bruce Swartz
Intervitur 1 4424
SWartz did not a get any more details about it. 4526. Bruce Swartz bads) --47:47
mew to believe -of Investigation had witnessed the 'helicopterf incident
46:49. The primary thrust of what the Federal Bureau of Investisation was saving hi that this is
"bniken." not that it is criminal. 47:16. (b15,
To Be
(WO) Bruce Swartz -
Interview 147:47
- 53:54
Tone '
Bruce Swartz-said he thought U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba was doingsrave damage
to our ' ' oil the Jew enfbreetnefe side. 5420. Bruce Swartz argued ageing it on policy
Bruce Swartz
Interview 153:54
b6 re= Faz
grounds and on practical results. 54:39. These was going to be a Deputies meeting at about the
time Bruce Swartz learned about the 'helicopter' incident to discuss 'where we were with
Cluamantuno." 54:47. The issue ofpossible mistreatment was going to be "merged" into that
discussion. In that context, Naval Criminal Investigative Service looked into it and ibund that it
was not substantiated_ 55:10. Bruce Swartz may have mentioned the allegation to Thompace
before the meeting. 55:25. He believes he would have expressed to Thompson his general
concern about'it made sense what we were doing at U.S. Naval Beim Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
55:58. The Deputies melon imams related to ALS. Naval Boise Guantanamo Bay, Cuba
(iincluding. for maamplt lama about cost). The Deputies met in preparation for the Principals
meeting, 56: Sl. Bryce Swath might have told Larry Thompson thathe tBruce Swartz) bad
raised it. 57:10. 'He does not think Larry Thompson would have raised it. 57:33. Bruce Swartz
said he had no reason to believe drat the Federal Bureau of Investigation had any connection to
the helicopter at all. 58:04. He does not have information that the Federal Bureau of
Investigation was impersonated in connection with the.helicopter incident. 58:24. Bruce Swartz
said John Bellinger told hint that Naval Criminal Investigative Service looked into this and found
no evidence that it.had ever taken place. 58:52.
- 58:52
To Be
Det pined
Bruce Swartz did not know howl(b)(1) *as being treated until he read Bruce Swartz
Interview 1 58:52 '
- i:06:12
about it in Time roagaztue. 59:33. Awe Swartz said.he heard_DavktNehinIss.(inicl "perhaps" •
Alice Pisher) discuss I (bit 11 land make comments to the effect that "we
WWI be able to use him. 59:59.1[1.,5.7
(b)(5) Bruce Swartz said he understood that "we' (Criminal
Division) thought there was a possibility - (b)(1) Juan
_Miele 111 court for his role in 9/1.1. 1:01:32, (MI5)
(b)(51 (Bruce Swartz had no idea that the treatment described in Time magazi ne
was going on. 1:02:03.1(b)(5)


(b)(5) Bruce Swartz was aware that David Nebulas had been
to U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. 1:03:35. Bruce Swards does not moll hear from
David Nehmias about oncerrus a treatment 1:04:02. Bruce Swartz believes David
Mein argued dm tb)(1) --Ishoulibe put into the criminal poem
1:04:47. 13mte Swartz does not recall hearing about the helicopter when he was wi
!David Nabmies and TAWS Panky. 1:05:44. Bruce Swarm said he asked Laure
she did not remember hewing about it. 1:05:58. Bruce Swartz does not know if his report to
Johd Bellinger was the only one on the helicopter Wave. 1:06:12.
To Be
' Determined
(b)(5) Brace &Arta
interview 1
1:06:12 - 1:10:39

To Be ' -- (b)(5) Bruce Swags
1-Interview 1
1:1039 - 1:18:41
Determined (b)(5)
b5 Per FBI
To Be
(b)(5) arece Swartz
1:18:41- 1:23,-08
To Be
0)(5) -Bruce Sviextx
Interview 1
. 111:08 - 1:29:53
debut in tennis of humane treamasm L29:53.
To Be
Bruce Swan:twe ak:4 lx, the context ofthe Sub-PM meetings, which at one point Bruce Swartz
Interview 1
1:29:53 - 1:34:40
were almost . He Ideal generally see him outside that 1:30:36. Brute Swartz thinks he
know IL ; .•r; ,...' ' but had no extensive medusa with hira. 1:3123. pazI)Wiattyi
,:• 9111101. He does not recoil if he had waited with
before. He worked withil lin those few weeks idler 9111. f:32:14. Bruce Swarm
said cannot recall lever conveyed concerns abOut detainee treatment to Bruce Sward,.
1:32:37. (b)(5) L.
Tolle - ''(b)(5)
Bruce Swartz
Interview 1
1:34:41) - 1:39:59
To Be
(b)(5) Brute Swartz
Interview I
1:39:59 - 1:43:51
Bruce Swartz does not retail that. 1:4340. Bruce Swatta said if we had a date, he could check •
his calendar, but he added that he would have thought:they would not have included him in that •
Ir ecsau e wiats n_ot .minyd an international mutter. 1:43-33. It wound 4ve_ be.e._n. .....•______
b6 Per FBI
if P - e D'Amtiro was still here. 1:43:51.
To Be
(b)(5) Bruce Swartz
Interview! •
1:43:51 - 1:58:50

To Be
The Office of the Inspector Gwent showed Bruce Swartz the 5,30103 BC with attachments.
1:59:31. Bruce Swarts does not think he received that. 2:00:01. He does not remember it.
2:00:13. Bruce Swartz does not remit the attachments either. 2:03:28. He thinkste would have
Bruce Sviarts
Interview I
1:58:50 - 2:06:29.
remembered that. 2:03:40.-1n c) .
bb7eC E'er FBI -
To Pe
' Bruce Swartz
Interview 1
2:06:29 - 2:11:04
To Be
Blue Swartz mentioned a document that Laura Parsley had shown him that suggested that the
Federal Bureau of Investigation take over the laternagatiors at U.& Naval Base Guantanamo Bay,
Cuba. 2:12:45. It was from sometime in 2004. 2:12:50. Bruce Swartz said he did suggest that
we should get Deparunent &Defense out of the process and inns it back tea criminal set up
questions, hut again Department ofDefense seemed to favor a different approach. 2:13:24.
Bruce Swarm
Interview I
2:11:04 - 2:13:24
To Be
(b)(5) Bruce Swartz
Interview 1
2:13:24 - 2:22:52
bb76C P er F5I
To Be
To Be
Bruce Swartz
interview I
2:22:52 -225:3d
Bruce Swartz mentioned an (Snail dated 12/5/04 to Mac Miestamy (ph) with ace to Bruce Swartz 1 Bruce
that copied•tho report of the Federal Bureau of Investigation letter of coraplaint of aggressive
interrogation at U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba in 2002 which commented: FYI hadn't
fully 50preCildel that their happy history- With-GM:MI Miller adendedteyOnd lioq; strums the
' bureau Is Prevanag talking points, 2:2115.
Swartz . .
Interview I
. 2:25:30 - 2p:.7;15.
To Be
(b)(5) Bruce Swartz
interview 1
2:27:15 - 2 :35:19