CaseMap Facts Report - Andy Arena Interview 1

The document includes notes from interviews conducted with FBI personnel Andy Arena, regarding his responsibilities as Section Chief of International Terrorism Operations as well as three areas and issues related to detainees.

Doc_type: 
Interview
Doc_date: 
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Doc_text: 

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Andrew G. Arena said we made clear to everyone who went down to U,S. Naval Base
Andrew G.A renas aidt herew eret hreea reaso r issuest hatw erer elated:on ew ast he detainees
in Bagram Air Force Base, where the Federal Bureau of Investigation put agents to help ID who
theyw ere,g ot hroughp ocket litter,e tc;th es econdw asU .S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay.C uba
-- as the detainees were moved from Bagram Air Force Base to U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo
Bay.C uba.t ot ryt o figureo utw hatt he Federal Bureauo f Investigationr olew ould be:th ree.
Andrew G. Arena said that his basic job responsibility as Section Chief of International
Terrorism Operations Section 1 was to oversee all international terrorism operations for the
Federal Bureau of Investigation. That included starting up the unit that was going to oversee
Federal Bureau of Investigation involvement with detainees in U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo
Bay, Cuba and Bagram Air Force Base. *
Andrew G. Arena said that from 3/02 to 3/03 he was Section Chief of International Terrorism
Operations Section1 ( radical Sunni groups).(H ee xplained that, initially, hew ast he heado f
ITOS, which later was divided into 1 and 2.) He said from 3/03 to 3/04 he was special assistant
to EAD for CT/CI. Andrew G. Arena said that three individual served in this position while he
was there: Pasquale D'Amuro from 3/03 to 8/03; Larry A. Mefford came in for a few months.
and then John S. Pistole.
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Andy Arena
Interview 1 at
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Andy Arena
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I To Be 1 Arena said, re. 006632 (e-mail from Stephen R. Wiley to Andrew G. Arena dated Nov. 18,
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Andrew G. Arena said there were conversations among Federal B
executive management that military believed that Department of
techniques to be permissible, not torture. "To be honest with you
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 'should we also go down that
Deputy Director, the EADs, AD Pasquale D'Amuro, John S. Pist(
the day Robert S. Mueller, III said "The Federal Bureau of Invest'
this" — i n late Spring, early summer 2002. The first incident of tf
to us from agents who were aware of specific techniques used on
government agency. The agents were savinu we're heino rut ru rt
Arena said military's position was, "you have your way and we have our way." You are law
enforcement and have the luxury of time, we have force protection and need info fast.
there and invariably the discussion would come up about the military tribunals, the intell we
were getting out of U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Andrew G. Arena said they would
have been aware of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's concerns that certain techniques were
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba that there was no difference in your technique in how you conduct
yourself with detainees -- only difference is the detainees weren't going to be prosecuted -- by
that didn't matter — still had to follow Federal Bureau of Investigation guidelines and the AG
guidelines.
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Interview 1 at
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Andrew G. Arena said he did not recal l seeing any draft ills for
Investigation had given Department of Defense after it had discovered the info through
traditional law enforcement investigation. We kept explaining this to Department of Defense, it
was a mess. They actually recalled some of the IIRs. He said some of the IIRs were "just
ludicrous." _ AnnYl(b)(5) ]we told our people, no, under no
Federal Bureau of Investigation a deadline to get inti
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Andrew G. Arena said he has no direct knowledge that the issue of effectiveness was raised at
the highest levels, but he knows that there were conversations between Office of the General
Counsel - FBI and the military attorneys, between David Nahmias and the JAG officers and the
Pentagon, between Robert S. Mueller, III and Tenet, and he assumes between Robert S. Mueller,
III and Donald Rumsfeld, and he assumes that, in those conversations, the point that the Federal
Bureau of Investigation way to conduct interviews was more effective than what was going on.
"We were preaching that to anybody and everybody who would listen to us." "I know there
were all these conversations between all these parties, and I can't believe they weren't passing
that along."
senior management knew Andrew G. Arena was going and the purpose, among others, was to
explain the limits on Federal Bureau of Investigation interrogation practices — that we were not
going to be involved in anything outside Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of
Justice guidelines.
Andy Arena
Andy Arena
Interview I at
1 :05:55, 1 :15:11
Andy Arena
Interview 1 at
1 :05:25
Andy Arena
Interview I at
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I Andrew G. Arena said he left questionnaire questions 22-25 blank because he did not receive
AndrewG .A renas aid her emembered PasqualeD 'Amurom akingt hec ommentt hat:so mebody
is going to have to testify before Congress on this one day, sitting in front of a big green felt
table and we're not going to lie, we going to be able to stand up there and say we did not
participate. Andrew G. Arena said, "I don't know...our sister agencies overseas doing this stuff
and Department of Justice is telling them, these techniques are not torturous.. I don't know if
that's a good sound legal statement...down the road someone could say that was illegal... the
legal interpretation could change and we didn't want to get caught in that quagmire.
Andrew G. Arena said that he recalled Mueller saying we not going to be in the room, not
participating in this stuff. He said it was with one of the first high value targets and our "sister"
agency decided it was going to go down this road, the Federal Bureau of Investigation actually
pulled its people from the site. Andrew G. Arena said that "maybe," early on, there may have
been instances when we were in the other room, when they first started using these things. But
then, by the Spring of 02, Andrew G. Arena said Mueller used words to the effect of "When this
is all said and done, I will not have an Federal Bureau of Investigation agent be indicted over
this." This was in the Spring of 02. Andrew G. Arena said Mueller said "someone is going to
get indicted -- we are not going to be involved." Andrew G. Arena said Pasquale D'Amuro was
or any specific concern by Behavioral Analysis Unit about the legality or effectiveness of the
(b)(6),(b)(7)(C)
Andy Arena
Andy Arena
Interview 1 at
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Doc_nid: 
11468
Doc_type_num: 
73